DBXL DDM springs too stiff?

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Bryan K.

Well-Known Member
Messages
268
Location
Richmond Hill, Ontario
Hey guys,

So I just got my DDM springs yesterday and installed them. They are supposed to be 20% stiffer than stock but they feel much stiffer. The stock shock/spring combo had terrible rebound and wouldn't even level the buggy after the suspension was compressed. Without changing any of the shock oil, the DDM springs definitely fixed the issue. The suspension is very responsive and pops back up quickly the way a buggy should be. However, the springs seem a bit too stiff. I had to remove all the preload and the suspension arms still sit higher than level (parallel). In fact, static the buggy's suspension barely drops at all from it's own weight. I haven't tested it yet as I don't run my buggy in snow or wet. Does anyone else have experience with these springs? How will the spring stiffness affect handling? I've always been told to get A arms level/parallel with the ground.

thanks,
 
Put thicker oil in your shocks.It will slow the rebound. After seeing this thread, I think ill order these springs for my MTXL lol. My stock springs seem too soft on that rig.

So if your wanting stiffer suspension, springs and thicker oil is what you do. You just didnt do the other part lol.
 
Grabbed the DDM stiffer springs, anybody have recommendations on what oil to run in the front and back? Shock oil or Silicone Diff oil? Pros and cons? Took the buggy out to the track this weekend and it definitely needs some adjusting.
 
Are you racing or bashing. If your bashing don't worry about ride height but I would still try to have some static sag.
Would like to be able to get around the track, while mostly for fun I do enjoy running laps. Want the DBXL to jump level, had a lot of front end landings on Saturday resulting in some broken parts. Trying to keep this fun and not get caught up in the racing again, LOL.
 
Going with 5000 in the rear and 6000 in the front/silicone diff oil with the DDM springs, will let ya know if that helps with the sailing.
 
Going with 5000 in the rear and 6000 in the front/silicone diff oil with the DDM springs, will let ya know if that helps with the sailing.
I've got 100,000 cst front and back. I really don't do a lot of jumping though. It handles super sweet though. Let us know how it goes.
 
I just put in 5000wt diff fluid in the shocks with my DDM springs. I haven't tested it yet but it has definitely slowed the dampening rate compared to the stock oil.

Don't get too stressed over different numbers. Each manufacturer varies in actual weight and viscosities anyways. CST and WT numbers actually mean anything since it's not a standard unit of measurement. You'll have to experiment with different weights/cst, but always try to keep the brand the same so your changes are consistent. I'm using Turnigy oil because it's cheap and I can throw it away and use a different weight if I don't like it. I was using Team Associated/Lucas oil previously, but the stuff is expensive and not always easy to get.
 
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I just put in 5000wt diff fluid in the shocks with my DDM springs. I haven't tested it yet but it has definitely slowed the dampening rate compared to the stock oil.

Don't get too stressed over different numbers. Each manufacturer varies in actual weight and viscosities anyways. CST and WT numbers actually mean anything since it's not a standard unit of measurement. You'll have to experiment with different weights/cst, but always try to keep the brand the same so your changes are consistent. I'm using Turnigy oil because it's cheap and I can throw it away and use a different weight if I don't like it. I was using Team Associated/Lucas oil previously, but the stuff is expensive and not always easy to get.

Thanks Bryan, appreciate the input, will post on here what I find out through testing.
 
WOO HOO! Took the Losi DBXL out to the dunes this weekend for my last trip of the year, found where this thing really likes to play. Pretty awesome jumping 4-6 feet in the air over the top of nice rounded dunes, 20-25 ft... the visual is freaking amazing, couldn't drive and snap pics but it was made for the dunes. Kill switch works, lost it over the top of a dune or two and the car shut off, "whew". As far as the changes to the shock oil... who knows... it handled better than it did last time i took it out (5000 rear and 7000 front), think it still wants to kick the ass end up on shorter jumps but given some big inclines it flies like a plane. Side note: When everyone tells you to take the whole buggy apart and Loctite everything... THEY MEAN IT, center drive shaft pins especially. Next time I get to a track I will shoot some notes about the suspension setup changes, really want this thing to not nose dive.
 
Just to follow up... wound up putting Losi FiveT front shocks all the way around... it's a completely different car now, jumps great. Messed with shock fluid weights and piston mods etc on the stock shocks, came to the conclusion they are junk.
 
I messed with the piston mods and all kinds of different shock oil weights with the ddm springs and the stock springs. The only way i could reliably keep the thing from nose diving is by being on throttle while airborn.
 
I messed with the piston mods and all kinds of different shock oil weights with the ddm springs and the stock springs. The only way i could reliably keep the thing from nose diving is by being on throttle while airborn.
Yeah, there was a lot of wasted time with the stock shocks. My big problem now is the rear drive pin just won't stay in no matter how much Loctite I use. Wish the drives on this were like the 5T.
 
Just an update on the DDM spring situation. I'd like to get some input from other people running these springs as well. I decided to renew my suspension parts for the purposes of aesthetics. My control arms and hinge pin braces were looking beat up. Anyways, after replacing the control arms, I noticed the front arms had a significant bend to them, the rears not as bad but still noticeable. They weren't flat, lets say that. The bend you can see is obviously caused by the shocks/springs. A good assumption is that the DDM springs are too stiff putting too much strain on what the A arms can handle. It's literally bending the A arms out of shape. I was already skeptical when I didn't need any preload on the shocks and the car would barely sag in ride height after it was dropped. That means with the spring collars all the way out, the springs are already preloaded with no weight. That's way too stiff! I had my droop screws set just slightly above the limits of the shocks, so there is plenty of travel. I immediately swapped back out to the stock springs. I don't want to bend another set of control arms. Anyways, on the buggy, the rears aren't too noticeable. But the fronts have a nice smiley face bend to them which is very noticeable. I had mine on since last summer, so I don't know if it needs to be installed for a while before it bends. It happened consistently and symmetrically on both sides. At first I thought it was a design done on purpose. After looking at my friend's DBXL with straight arms I can confirm that it's the springs. The bend literally happens where the shock is mounted pushing against the A-arm. It's warped and curved downward where the shock mounts. Please check on this guys, I'd like to know how it's affecting your buggys as well. The problem is that the stock springs are too long and already have too much preload. What DDM should have done is shorten the springs and made them stiffer to allow more suspension travel. Simply making them stiffer and leaving the length the same just increases the preload even more while making the springs stiffer. What you're left with is a buggy with almost no suspension travel designed to take hard impacts I guess? It won't bottom out as easily, but it essentially makes the handling worse.

I guess if you run aluminum arms, that would fix the bending issue, but I'd really like to keep the arms plastic for crashability. Will upload some pics later of the bent arms. I should also mention that i never jump my buggy or abuse it. In fact, it usually sees only tarmac or a bit of grass at the park.
 
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I just found these...

https://rc-car-online.de/en/products/y1388-y1388-offroad-tuning-springs-dirt-spring-dbxl-mtxl.html

I didn't know these existed, but seem like a better option. They've done exactly what I said needed to be done. Stiffer springs and shorter to alleviate preload. The extreme preload from the length of the springs is what I suspect is causing the A-arms to bend as well. Bad design. Not a fan of the colours but anyways I think I'll stick to the stock springs for now.

Also, everyone seems to be tuning shock oil by making it thicker and going higher weight. The description for the new springs says that the oil is too thick which I somewhat agree with. If the shock action isn't smooth, it would make more sense to use a thinner oil and not thicker right? Essentially what everyone is doing is adding stiffer springs and thicker oil so the buggy won't bottom out from jumps. Is that all this thing is? Just a stunt car people throw off jumps? I would stick to a smaller scale car for jumps, 1/5th scale just doesn't cut it for something like that. I'd rather have a plush suspension that can soak up bumps from uneven terrain.
 
I am curious if you guys are actually running 5k diff fluid in the shocks or 50wt. Even though the 5000wt oil is essentially the same type of oil it is thicker than the 50wt that generally is used in a shock. The Diff fluid is 5k CST and the 50wt is around 650 CST
 
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