Are these bent flat washers necessary?

[Peteolheadz100]

Removing my clutch i found these that came out bent. I cannot get one back over the screw and the other is cracked. Are these necessary?also the screws from he clutch when tightened have a small gap they don't touch the washer or tighten all the way down, is this normal?

 

[t2boats]

The should live under the shoe screws, between the underside of the screws head and face of the clutch shoe.. they're a shim come spring washer really. The clutch shoe screws are machined to a certain length so they will bottom out and not lock the shoe in one position. With the shim washer in place it allows the shoe to move swinging outwards yet still not float so much along the stem of the machined screw. you need a new pair!

 

[Peteolheadz100]

The should live under the shoe screws, between the underside of the screws head and face of the clutch shoe.. they're a shim come spring washer really. The clutch shoe screws are machined to a certain length so they will bottom out and not lock the shoe in one position. With the shim washer in place it allows the shoe to move swinging outwards yet still not float so much along the stem of the machined screw. you need a new pair!

I went to the hardware store and picked up some lock washers that definately lock the screws snug, should this be ok? Heres a pic...by the way i called redcat and they don't sell these shims they said the motors come pre assembled and they don't have these shims. Even when i put the shim that didnt split the screws didnt go all the way in there was a small gap

 

[Peteolheadz100]

Ok so i figure what your saying makes sense, ill eliminate the lock washer that will lock the shoe and probably the clutch wont be able to spring out and added a washer thats a hair thicker than the washer that came on the clutch, now when its tight the washer spins but there is very minimal space between the shoe and the screw. As long as theres loctite on the screw it shouldnt come loose and can still function as intended

 

[t2boats]

Yep there'll be a tiny gap there. On the stem of the screw you'll see the smooth circular area above the thread is a wider diameter, almost the same diameter as the hole in each clutch shoe - a very snug fit. The distance along that smooth area on the stem is slightly longer than the depth of the hole in the clutch shoe (hence why there's a tiny gap when it's all put together and without the shims fitted you can jiggle the shoes back n fore very slightly along the stem). This smooth part of the stem allows it to hold the shoe in place, allowing it to still fling out from the generated centrifugal force. This is where the shim/spring washer comes into play, this almost takes up that tiny gap, the spring element of the shim will hold the clutch shoes against the clutch carrier plate (crankcase drive), keeping the shoes in the one area of the clutch bell.

From looking at your photo, with those washers you've fitted you won't have grounded out the smooth area of the shoe screws against the carrier plate, so effectively the shoes will now be fixed in one position and won't be able to swing outwards as the underside of the screws head is pressing against the washer, which is pressing against the clutch shoe, which is pressing against the carrier plate on the crankshaft. The shoe should not be in a solid state of contact against the carrier plate. But saying that, depending on how tight you've done the screws up could lead to a few possible outcomes.

• The car won't move forwards, just rev as the centrifugal force can't overcome the tightness of the shoes.

• If the centrifugal force does overcome the tightness of the screws the clutch pads will swing outwards engaging drive. All will seem normal at first - until the moment you come to slow down and suddenly realise the car is still quite happily zooming along - beyond your control. The shoes are still engaged because the screws are holding the clutch shoes tight.

• If the shoes manage to retract then it won't be long until things come loose and the clutch mechanism will jam, halting the car

They need to be free and have that element of float along the shoe screws so they can retract disengaging the clutch.Not sure if you use ebay but there's plenty of clutch shoe kits available which come with the crinkle washers which you need! Hope this helps!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Raci...262217?hash=item3f95543049:g:9T8AAOSwXf1abHFp

 

[t2boats]

Ok so i figure what your saying makes sense, ill eliminate the lock washer that will lock the shoe and probably the clutch wont be able to spring out and added a washer thats a hair thicker than the washer that came on the clutch, now when its tight the washer spins but there is very minimal space between the shoe and the screw. As long as theres loctite on the screw it shouldnt come loose and can still function as intended

Yes, basically whatever you're going to fit has to be narrower than the gap that's there or the clutch shoes will become locked into place.

 

[Peteolheadz100]

Yep there'll be a tiny gap there. On the stem of the screw you'll see the smooth circular area above the thread is a wider diameter, almost the same diameter as the hole in each clutch shoe - a very snug fit. The distance along that smooth area on the stem is slightly longer than the depth of the hole in the clutch shoe (hence why there's a tiny gap when it's all put together and without the shims fitted you can jiggle the shoes back n fore very slightly along the stem). This smooth part of the stem allows it to hold the shoe in place, allowing it to still fling out from the generated centrifugal force. This is where the shim/spring washer comes into play, this almost takes up that tiny gap, the spring element of the shim will hold the clutch shoes against the clutch carrier plate (crankcase drive), keeping the shoes in the one area of the clutch bell.

From looking at your photo, with those washers you've fitted you won't have grounded out the smooth area of the shoe screws against the carrier plate, so effectively the shoes will now be fixed in one position and won't be able to swing outwards as the underside of the screws head is pressing against the washer, which is pressing against the clutch shoe, which is pressing against the carrier plate on the crankshaft. The shoe should not be in a solid state of contact against the carrier plate. But saying that, depending on how tight you've done the screws up could lead to a few possible outcomes.

• The car won't move forwards, just rev as the centrifugal force can't overcome the tightness of the shoes.

• If the centrifugal force does overcome the tightness of the screws the clutch pads will swing outwards engaging drive. All will seem normal at first - until the moment you come to slow down and suddenly realise the car is still quite happily zooming along - beyond your control. The shoes are still engaged because the screws are holding the clutch shoes tight.

• If the shoes manage to retract then it won't be long until things come loose and the clutch mechanism will jam, halting the car

They need to be free and have that element of float along the shoe screws so they can retract disengaging the clutch.Not sure if you use ebay but there's plenty of clutch shoe kits available which come with the crinkle washers which you need! Hope this helps!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Raci...262217?hash=item3f95543049:g:9T8AAOSwXf1abHFp[/QUOTE thanks for the info, i would hate to buy a new clutch set just for one of those washers, i did buy a washer hat is a hair thicker than the washer that sits under the screw, figuring it will fill that gap 95% still alowing the washer to spin but the shoe will not be able to slide back and forth only a hair, this should work i guess whats your thought

 

[Peteolheadz100]

Ok got it, hopefully ill get it all back together waiting on a flywheel co ing in tomorrow ill keep you posted on how it works out, thanks again

 

[t2boats]

No worries - hope it works out for you!

 

[Peteolheadz100]

Got the new pullstart and flywheel installed, didnt use any wave washer just a washer thats a hair thicker than the clutch washer to compensate or the wave washer, car ran great. Only ran half a tank to test it out but tomorrow i will run at least 3 tanks after work. I was going to order some wave washers but i don't know if i should if it runs fine as is....

 

[t2boats]

I wouldn't bother now that it runs fine on those you've fitted so long as the shoes don't ever become locked and held fast to the carrier then it'll always work! Nice one - have fun