Raminator suggestions/improvements/upgrades

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deathrawt

Well-Known Member
Messages
270
Owen from Primal posted the other dsy looking for feedback on the trucks and suggestions on upgrades/improvements
I posted on a different thread about an upgrade I would like to see but figured that this deserves its own topic as to not derail the other thread
So I will start off with my feedback on how to make the trucks better and I urge others to do the same
If all our ideas are in one topic it will be easier for Primal to look at what we say
My first upgrade idea is for a servo operated two speed transmission so we can shift gears on the go
If they can incorporate the reverse as well all the better
My second suggestion is how to deal with the wire harnesses shorting out on some trucks
I believe the biggest issue here is the aluminum radio box
Any bare wiring or even the tabs on the switch or battery wires can make contact with the aluminum box causing an instant short/meltdown
Make the box out of plastic rather then aluminum
It will be cheaper to make and sell as well
My third suggestion is since you have a grave digger coming out why not do a son of a digger too
The mega truck already has the blue anodizing so it’s a no brainer to do the son of a digger
 
I doubt the shorting harness is the fault of an alloy battery box. Plenty of guys run alloy battery boxes in other platforms with no issues. It seems to be more of a harness quality issue.
Another issue that seems to stick out is the steering servos not being in sync and that causes them to fight and puts extra stress on the harness as well. Really decent quality control will solve these issues.
Also the bronze bushing between the pinion bearings, this should be standard or addressed with an updated machining process, or supplied as standard with the rig.
 
I agree with Sean, alloy box definitely is the issue. Likely sloppy wiring is backwards or faulty receiver or what not. All my harnesses burned mainly from the servo wiring first.

Steering servos are junk, I'd pay more with good servos and I'm sure 90% of people would agree.

My opinion, but I disagree on the 2 speed, it's that much more to go wrong and I have never seen a 2 speed hold up to any real power. Gear changes are the easiest and most reliable.

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With that said, the servos are just junk, they need to be upgraded to atleast the better primal ones. Harness also needs to be sorted, which could be as simple as quality control.

Stronger transmission drivetrain would be nice, and as mentioned above a brass bushing on the pinion for the axles. Theirs a large gap their that needs support to help the bearings not be destroyed in just a few runs.

Next just plain more upgrades, and add ones to set it apart. Wheels, tires, tracks, etc.
 
Here are my opinions:

Improved EMI shielding:
  • Braided nylon does not shield from engine ignition noise.
  • Change in ferrite bead location, must be closest to ignition coil than at the receiver end.
A reliable kill switch that does not monitor the throttle signal line:
  • There is no point in that. :unsure: Had to adjust end points for the throttle to prevent the Triton kill switch from shutting down the engine.
  • Ignition noise itself will cause issues with receiver if not properly addressed. This will cause unpredictable events including runaway :D I found out the hard way during a test run. For some reason or another the Triton Kill switch must have locked up as it did not respond properly to receiver signal loss or radio failure.
 
Thank you for everyone's input. These are all things I am working on now that I'm full time :)
We are a small company, probably smaller than you think, so sometimes priorities shift for what gets done around here.

Electrical issues and servos are #1 on the list for me currently. For new products, I can't say exactly but with new vehicles they are usually a minimum of 1 year in development before release, more realistically it's probably 2 years from idea to shipping the first order. So don't worry there are some cool upgrades and new vehicles coming down the pipe :)
 
Bandit2013 said:
Here are my opinions:

Improved EMI shielding:
  • Braided nylon does not shield from engine ignition noise.
  • Change in ferrite bead location, must be closest to ignition coil than at the receiver end.
A reliable kill switch that does not monitor the throttle signal line:
  • There is no point in that. :unsure: Had to adjust end points for the throttle to prevent the Triton kill switch from shutting down the engine.
  • Ignition noise itself will cause issues with receiver if not properly addressed. This will cause unpredictable events including runaway :D I found out the hard way during a test run. For some reason or another the Triton Kill switch must have locked up as it did not respond properly to receiver signal loss or radio failure.
Click to expand...
I've been thinking a good but about this since your thread, and other posts that have similar issues, both here and on other sites. Really a lot of it could be avoided, by selling it as an almost ready to run. Let the buyer choose their servos and electronics. This would save primal some headaches and a little money off the cost of the truck.

From your posts it seems you had a lot of issues with the alloy receiver box and interference. I know this is not true for many other models that use alloy boxes. For instance I run an alloy box in my vekta, that contains the receiver, kill switch and battery. As far as I know many of us with the vekta platform are running a similar set up and have not experienced interference issues, which again points to the electronics used.

Your second issue was the engine, As far as I know these are shipped with pretty generic engines that are similar if not the same used in small pocket bikes ect. They are frought with the same issues. Not knocking on the engine, but they are known issues with them. The biggest issues in a rc platform is they are rc, so it hadn't behooved the mfg to improve on quality as this is a very small sales segment. Basically what I'm saying, is I don't know if primal will be able to do anything directly about it, without increasing cost. As you mentioned some shielding would be a nice touch, but I really think a better quality replacement wire and cap would solve most of that issue. Again a cost increase. It will be interesting to see how this particular truck evolves with its next rendition.
 
@Seandonato73 That is a really great suggestion! At least give the option of a some what builder kit. I pre ordered a grave digger. I will probably never fire the stock engine & I will be ordering upgraded servos before the truck even arrives based on input from others builds. So now I’ll be stuck trying to unload that stuff that I never wanted in the 1st place.

It still doesn’t drill down to quality control issues that need to be addressed regardless, but would allow buyers to have some control without having deal with items that seem to be plagued with issues. One of our most prominent builders @John Parks advised me to buy a spare harness right out of the gate!🤣 Funny but very sad for the cost of these rigs!
 
Main Reason why i don't own one yet. Really miss the days when RCs were kits or ARTRs.. paying new car price for new parts that im never going to use.

Bizzer said:
@Seandonato73 That is a really great suggestion! At least give the option of a some what builder kit. I pre ordered a grave digger. I will probably never fire the stock engine & I will be ordering upgraded servos before the truck even arrives based on input from others builds. So now I’ll be stuck trying to unload that stuff that I never wanted in the 1st place.

It still doesn’t drill down to quality control issues that need to be addressed regardless, but would allow buyers to have some control without having deal with items that seem to be plagued with issues. One of our most prominent builders @John Parks advised me to buy a spare harness right out of the gate!🤣 Funny but very sad for the cost of these rigs!
Click to expand...
 
I would agree, having a kit to build and allow you to decide on what radio, engine, servos, etc. The ready to run market sort of took some of the fun out of the hobby. When I was into the 1/10 scale, I only bought the kit versions. Not complaining, I have rebuilt two Bajas, built one from parts, rebuild the exceed Barca (why I am not sure). Then there was the Kraken Vekta KV5TT. Wanted the kit but sold out so opted for the RTR. Took it apart and rebuilt it with some upgrades. I cannot say I am displeased with the Raminator. I was aware there could be issues with the servos from others who have made some great build logs. The EMI issue, that was unexpected but now fixed.

I was researching the pocket bike engines just for kicks. They are the same thing when considering the 2 stroke. 47cc to 54cc. Not sure if the mounting bolt pattern is the same so there could be some differences.

The difference between the Vekta and the Raminator other than the engine is the long runs for the servo wires. Location of the ignition coil is also on the other side in relation to the radio and other electronics with the Vekta. The manual kill switch is also mounted to the engine/fan cover whereas the Raminator it is outside of that metal housing that would aid in EMI shielding (no place for it on the pocket bike motor). As to why I had issues with the Triton and Killer Bee kill switch when installed inside the receiver/battery box is still unresolved. Leaving the Killer Bee kill switch control outside of the metal battery box was the only solution.

I too have metal boxes on two of my Bajas that has the battery, radio and killer bee installed inside of it. Have not had any issues with that arrangement. Since the Baja battery box is bolted to the metal frame, it is essentially electrically connected to the engine case. I did try coupling the metal Raminator box to the frame. No improvement. Keeping the remote kill switch leads that are directly connected to the manual kill switch outside of the battery box was the only solution in keeping the receiver operational. When it was installed in the box, it was unpredictable when the radio signal will be lost and what the vehicle was going to do since the engine did not cut out.

My only regret, not getting a baseline with the oscilloscope from the start. I modified the cylinder insert and removed the anodizing before I borrowed the oscilloscope from work. Actually, not anodizing the center portion that the spark plug screws into is a cost-effective change as it is one less part that goes into the tank.
 
Hello there. I don't actually own a full Raminator, but I have a 6x6 based on Raminator axles that is still a work in progress but is at the state of being mechanically complete on the driveline and chassis. The folks at Primal probably saw my orders coming in and were wondering why in the heck this crazy guy is ordering three or six of everything :).

Having the axles means I have some idea of what the 4x4 truck is like though to some degree hopefully :) These are my observations so far with the axles so far on things that can be improved:
  • Limiting straps really should be stock equipment, even if as much as a centimeter of droop and shock travel is lost in the process. My hunch is that this would prevent the vast majority of shock piston failures that I have seen others experiencing. Making the piston thicker or out of a metal would not really help the matter and only delays inevitable breakage. I absolutely have to use limiting straps unlike a 4x4 because of the inherent higher stresses and axle loading that I am doing with my project. Caveat here- I have not yet even properly driven my truck, but have experience with this sort of chassis design and the problems it can introduce on shocks at smaller scales. For reference, I am using V3 shocks.
  • The springs that come with the V3 shocks are just far too soft, but that is probably just me. Disclaimer in that my project has totally different needs. I am currently using 235mm single springs with a max load of 99 lbs, and a spring rate of 0.60lbs/mm. I feel like the stock springs are like 1/3 of this but I don't have a great way of accurately measuring them. Spring options in the 0.40lb/mm for a 4x4 Raminator would be a good sweet spot perhaps.
  • I purchased three front V2 axles and while I am quite happy with them, one thing that stood out was that the stock servos are not great. While 70Kg torque is adequate for even the higher weight I have on my truck, the quality of the servos has me worried a bit and I am not sure of their overall longevity.
  • I have also encountered one of my axles being shipped with misaligned servos. Luckily I checked all this stuff beforehand but if someone ran their gear straight out of the box in this case, it would have been one or two dead servos before being even able to drive.
  • Whoever is tying the knots in the steering servo cables, please stop doing that! One pair of my servos came so tight that the cables permanently crimped down! Luckily in my case I did not care, because I modified my servos to direct power and cut the leads short. I am using XT30 on the power leads, and ran 2mm bullet connectors to the PWM cable, which were then shielded and armored.
  • I extensively use armored cables on my truck, and while I don't know or think if it is a cost-feasible feature to put on a stock Raminator, something like this being offered as at least an upgrade option would be nice. The thought of just having some cables hanging loose with these heavy duty axles and link rods moving about is terrifying to me. Maybe its overkill, but that's just me.
  • I actually concur with some of the other owners here who want a plastic electronic mechanism box, but on my vehicle I can do that because it is towards the front and very well protected by the chassis rails surrounding it. I can understand the decision to use aluminum on a stock Raminator because it is somewhat exposed, being in the rear of the vehicle like that.
Again, I know that I represent a very abnormal use case, so some of what I am suggesting here might be totally off the mark and I accept that. I am doing a lot of abnormal things with this project- like using a single outrunner for power, and extremely large parallel battery modules made of individual packs which are then series connected together. This picture should explain my methods and goals being sort of different.

https://imgur.com/7TGYJEH

Anyhow, thanks for reading!
 
potatocat said:
Hello there. I don't actually own a full Raminator, but I have a 6x6 based on Raminator axles that is still a work in progress but is at the state of being mechanically complete on the driveline and chassis. The folks at Primal probably saw my orders coming in and were wondering why in the heck this crazy guy is ordering three or six of everything :).

Having the axles means I have some idea of what the 4x4 truck is like though to some degree hopefully :) These are my observations so far with the axles so far on things that can be improved:
  • Limiting straps really should be stock equipment, even if as much as a centimeter of droop and shock travel is lost in the process. My hunch is that this would prevent the vast majority of shock piston failures that I have seen others experiencing. Making the piston thicker or out of a metal would not really help the matter and only delays inevitable breakage. I absolutely have to use limiting straps unlike a 4x4 because of the inherent higher stresses and axle loading that I am doing with my project. Caveat here- I have not yet even properly driven my truck, but have experience with this sort of chassis design and the problems it can introduce on shocks at smaller scales. For reference, I am using V3 shocks.
  • The springs that come with the V3 shocks are just far too soft, but that is probably just me. Disclaimer in that my project has totally different needs. I am currently using 235mm single springs with a max load of 99 lbs, and a spring rate of 0.60lbs/mm. I feel like the stock springs are like 1/3 of this but I don't have a great way of accurately measuring them. Spring options in the 0.40lb/mm for a 4x4 Raminator would be a good sweet spot perhaps.
  • I purchased three front V2 axles and while I am quite happy with them, one thing that stood out was that the stock servos are not great. While 70Kg torque is adequate for even the higher weight I have on my truck, the quality of the servos has me worried a bit and I am not sure of their overall longevity.
  • I have also encountered one of my axles being shipped with misaligned servos. Luckily I checked all this stuff beforehand but if someone ran their gear straight out of the box in this case, it would have been one or two dead servos before being even able to drive.
  • Whoever is tying the knots in the steering servo cables, please stop doing that! One pair of my servos came so tight that the cables permanently crimped down! Luckily in my case I did not care, because I modified my servos to direct power and cut the leads short. I am using XT30 on the power leads, and ran 2mm bullet connectors to the PWM cable, which were then shielded and armored.
  • I extensively use armored cables on my truck, and while I don't know or think if it is a cost-feasible feature to put on a stock Raminator, something like this being offered as at least an upgrade option would be nice. The thought of just having some cables hanging loose with these heavy duty axles and link rods moving about is terrifying to me. Maybe its overkill, but that's just me.
  • I actually concur with some of the other owners here who want a plastic electronic mechanism box, but on my vehicle I can do that because it is towards the front and very well protected by the chassis rails surrounding it. I can understand the decision to use aluminum on a stock Raminator because it is somewhat exposed, being in the rear of the vehicle like that.
Again, I know that I represent a very abnormal use case, so some of what I am suggesting here might be totally off the mark and I accept that. I am doing a lot of abnormal things with this project- like using a single outrunner for power, and extremely large parallel battery modules made of individual packs which are then series connected together. This picture should explain my methods and goals being sort of different.

https://imgur.com/7TGYJEH

Anyhow, thanks for reading!
Click to expand...
That 6x6 is sick! We have been waiting for someone crazy enough to attempt building one! Can't wait to see it run, we love this crazy stuff keep it up :)
 
Would love an air filter housing that brings the air filter up beside the tune pipe. The vekta housing would be perfect if only it was clocked the opposite way from straight up. If installed it lines up with the tune pipe, so it needs to be redesigned.
 
Rceverywhere said:
Would love an air filter housing that brings the air filter up beside the tune pipe. The vekta housing would be perfect if only it was clocked the opposite way from straight up. If installed it lines up with the tune pipe, so it needs to be redesigned.
Click to expand...
You could try an mcd air filter setup. It can be clocked into any direction.
 
crucialRC said:
You could try an mcd air filter setup. It can be clocked into any direction.
Click to expand...
I had seen it during searching, wasn't sure how the air filter would fit, or how high. The vecta is solid plastic and puts the element under the cab, further from spilled gas that would wash off the inner air filter oil. I'm just to fussy I guess. I had the vekta housing to test on the truck for better visual, would love to see the mcd installed for referrance, instead of buying it and not liking it. But I did find that L tube on ali express for 3$ ... how could you go wrong at that price. It would be way better than the stock filter that lives in dirt under the tank
 
Seandonato73 said:
Fits just fine. That's the set up I have on mine. Don't mind the dust, haven't ran this thing in over a year.
Click to expand...
No amount of dust or mud dried on would bother me, is that a vekta.5? I was wondering how it fit a raminator, but it does fit the vekta, so should be room on the raminator, none the less I will still try to get something 3d printed ... Damn those 3d scanners are expensive!!!
 
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