Kraken Vekta 5 direct drive

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Ninth Island RC said:
First, understandable about the 'tool'. For my first digital caliper, I bought a cheapie at Home Depot. What I have now might not be "the best", but I also don't feel like spending $200-300 on a single tool I mostly use for RC. The first was around $15 (which I still keep as a backup), while the current one (which also came with a calibration certificate) was around $50-60.

Second, thank you for the photos with measurements. That might help...but, I have a couple questions about the 128.85mm in the first photo. It's obvious where the 'starting' point in that photo is...but, where is the other end of that measurement (ie. the other end of the layshaft, the 'inside' end of the measurement in the second photo, a different point)? If the measurement isn't any of those, then what is the distance from the starting point of the first photo (ie. the end that's inside the transmission case), to the 'inside' point of the second photo (which, I'm assuming, is where the spur gear rests against)?

Things is, even though the gas layshaft is longer than the electric layshaft, if it positions the spur gear approximately the same distance from the other end, then it might still be able to be used, even if I were to have to drill a hole through the clear plastic spur gear cover.

It's too bad that the Taylor spur carrier can fit on the stock Kraken layshafts If the Taylor spur carrier could fit on the Kraken layshaft, then my 'problem' would be solved.
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I hear you. My Mitutoyo is in the garage where i wrench 99% of the time and my Craftsman battery eater in the pic is at my desk where i wrench aka dry fit sometimes.

The 128.85mm is to total length of the shaft. I couldn't get the whole thing in the pic with my cell phone.
 
cmbscx10 said:
I hear you. My Mitutoyo is in the garage where i wrench 99% of the time and my Craftsman battery eater in the pic is at my desk where i wrench aka dry fit sometimes.

The 128.85mm is to total length of the shaft. I couldn't get the whole thing in the pic with my cell phone.
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What about the other measurement I mentioned, from the inside end (which is inside the transmission case), to where the spur gear rests against the layshaft (see image for reference). I think this measurement is the one that will really decide whether, or not, what I'm attempting to achieve is possible (or not possible, whichever the case ends up being). Tomorrow, I'll remove my spur & layshaft from my VESLA's transmission, and measure from the end of the layshaft, to the side of the spur facing the transmission case. Once I know both measurements, then I should have my answer...hopefully.

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Sorry, but my brain isn't making any sense from that
cmbscx10 said:
The long measurement is the Spur side and the short the transmission.
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Sorry, but my brain isn't making any sense out of that. Let's try another way. For this, the third photo doesn't matter, as I know that measurement should be identical on both gas & electric layshafts.

Based on your photos, the 50.88mm measurement from where the carrier rests against the layshaft, to the end of the layshaft furthest from the transmission case (as seen in the second photo). And, from what you said later, the 128.85mm measurement is the total length of the layshaft. Based on those two measurements (50.88mm & 128.85mm), that would mean that the measurement I was looking to get (from my previous post) would supposedly be approx 78mm (ie. the distance from the 'inside' end of the measurement shown in photo 2, to the end of the layshaft that's inside the transmission housing).

Getting to the carrier, what is the thickness of the carrier where it slides over the layshaft? If my assumption is correct, the width of the carrier is probably going to be the same 50.88mm (or extremely close to it) that you showed in the second photo. In other words, when the carrier is slid onto the layshaft, and held in place with the screw at the end, is the carrier 'flush' on it's own, or are additional shims used (if you could show a photo of the carrier attached to the layshaft, without the spur attached to the carrier, that would smart the question without you having to actually type the answer).

Not that this has a huge amount to do with everything else...it's more my curiosity...but, regarding the carrier, are the 5 'arms' centered along the carrier's width, or are they offset to one side? And, for the spur, are the 5 screw holes centered on the spur, or are they offset? The reason for these two questions relates to the number of possible different distances the spur gear might be able to be in in relation to the 'inside' end of the layshaft. If the carrier 'arms' are centered, and the screw attachment holes on the spur are centered, that creates 2 possible distances from the inside end of the layshaft. But, if either the carrier arms, or the spur screw attachment holes, are offset, that creates 4 possible distances. And, if BOTH the carrier arms AND spur screw attachment holes are offset, that creates 8 possible distances. The greater the number of "possible distances" are, the greater the possibility that the spur can be properly spaced if used in an electric VESLA. Although, this only matters if the layshaft is actually long enough to be used in an electric VESLA...which should be able to be determined based on the answers to the questions in the second & third paragraphs above.

The point of all this is, if we can prove that it IS possible to use the Taylor Direct Drive in an electric VESLA, this could help a lot of people. At the same time, if we prove that using the Taylor DD in an electric VESLA is NOT possible, then this will help others in not only knowing it isn't possible, but also 'why' it isn't possible. Either way - yes, or no - we should have an answer soon.
 
I've got a partial update on the possibility of using the Taylor DD in an electric VESLA, but we'll have to wait until cmbscx10 (or someone else) replies with the data related to the Taylor parts

I removed my layshaft (with spur & slipper still attached) from the transmission, and took measurements. From the 'inside' end of the layshaft, to the side of the spur closest to the transmission case, it's 100.5mm...and, from the same 'inside' point, to the opposite side of the spur, it's 113.5mm (which, obviously, means the 57T HD spur from Kraken is 13mm). This, in turn, means that, from the 'inside' end of the layshaft, to the center of the spur's 13mm thickness, it is 107mm (see photo).

Now, what's needed to determine whether, or not, the Taylor parts (layshaft, carrier, & spur) can be used in an electric VESLA is for cmbscx10 (or someone else who already has the Taylor the parts) to look at my photo, assemble their Taylor parts, and determine the measurement (or different measurements, if different ways of assembling the carrier & spur (as I mentioned yesterday) are actually possible) using the same measurement points I mentioned above. The "key" measurement...the one that will actually determine whether, or not, the Taylor parts are useable in an electric VESLA...is the distance from the 'inside' end of the layshaft, to the center of the spur's thickness (I don't mention the thickness of the Taylor spur gears, because I don't know their thickness). And, again, if these 3 Taylor parts can be assembled in different ways, creating different "key' measurements, then having all possible "key" measurements would be needed to make the determination. 'Inquiring minds' are ready, and waiting, to know. 😄

If it turns out to be possible, great...owners of electric VESLAs can rejoice. And, if the data shows it's definitely not a possibility, at least we will know.

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cmbscx10 said:
Sorry but you lost me a long time ago. Here are some more pics that might help.
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Unfortunately, those photos don't actual help. The point I've been trying to make all along is that the overall length of the layshaft isn't what's truly important. As clearly indicates by my photo, what's important is the measurement from the 'inside' end of the layshaft (ie. the end that's inside the transmission case, or the right red line in my photo), to the "midpoint" of the thickness of the spur gear (ie. the left red line in my photo). Looking at the photo I posted of the electric layshaft, with spur gear & slipper installed, that measurement is 107mm. Using the Taylor parts, I can see the possibility of at least two different measurements, and possibility as many as eight different measurements, which I can explain.

The carrier slides into the 'outside' end of the layshaft, and is held in place using a screw, correct? In other words, the screw holds the carrier in place the same way the screw on the opposite end of the layshaft holds the layshaft in place inside the transmission, correct? Also, it's my assumption that either end of the carrier can slide onto the layshaft...please, let me know if this assumption is correct, it not.

Continuing with my assumption that either end of the carrier can have towards the transmission case, and starting with the simplest of the Taylor assembly possibilities I was trying to explain, assuming that the 5 arms on the carrier are centered along the thickness of the carrier, and assuming that the screw attachment points (ie. where the spur attaches to the carrier) on the spur are also centered, that would give two different ways the assembled carrier & spur could go into the layshaft - the first is with the spur attached to the carrier, with the spur on the side of the carrier closest to the transmission case. The second is with the spur attached to the carrier, with the spur on the side of the carrier further from the transmission case. In other words, with the spur attached to the carrier, if you slide the carrier into the layshaft with the spur closer to the transmission case, the measurement from the center of the spur gear thickness, to the 'inside' end of the layshaft, will be one measurement. And, of you flip the carrier around, so that the spur is now on the side of the carrier further away from the transmission case, that same measurement would be slightly longer. Hopefully, to to this point, you're being what I was saying.

Assuming you got everything I explained in the above paragraph, explaining the rest is easier. In the previous example, the arms on the carrier are 'centered' along the thickness of the carrier, and the same was true for the spur & the spur's attachment points to the carrier. But, if either of those (the carrier OR the spur) have their attachment points off-center (meaning, the are closer to one side, and further from the other side), then that changes the number of possible measurements (from the center of the spur thickness (the left red line in my photo), to the 'inside' end of the layshaft (the right red line in my photo)) from 2 possibilities, to 4 possibilities. And, if the carrier-to-spur attachment points on BOTH (ie. the carrier AND the spur) are offset, then that increases the possibilities to 8. If you look at my photo, and take note of the red lines (ie. the distance needing to be measured), it's quite simple to understand what measurements are needed with the Taylor parts. However, the measurements can only be taken AFTER the layshaft, carrier, and spur gear are assembled (but NOT installed into the transmission).

If I had the parts, or even knew someone locally (Las Vegas area), then I could take the measurements myself, and post the data here. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone else in the Las Vegas area who even owns any Kraken RC vehicles. Hopefully, at least one person in this forum who owns the Taylor parts in question understands all I've explained, and can provide the measurements. Again, assuming that either end of the carrier can slide onto the layshaft, I know there are at least 2 possibilities, with as many as 8. Even with 8 possibilities, and having to reconfigure the parts to take the measurements, all 8 possibilities should be able to have measurements done in less than 15 minutes (probably less than 10).
 
Ferrebee88 said:
Here is my contribution... vesla electric and gas shafts.
View attachment 107083
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Thank you. Unfortunately, the gas layshaft you're showing isn't the Taylor layshaft compatible with the carrier & Taylor Baja Spur gears. That's why the previously-mentioned measurements of the assembled Taylor parts is needed.

At the same time, seeing a photo of the stock Kraken layshafts, side-by-side, does increase my faith that using the Taylor parts in an electric VESLA might actually be possible...and, your photo actually gave me another idea that might help determine that. Is there anyone in this forum who has an assembled stock electric layshaft, spur, and slipper (exactly as shown in my photo), and ALSO has the assembled Taylor gas version (ie. the Taylor VESLA layshaft, carrier, and spur)?

If so, could you last the assembled stock electric version, and the Taylor gas version, side-by-side, exactly as Ferrebee88 did with the that stock layshafts, and take/post a photo? The tooth count of the Taylor spur doesn't matter...as long as both are assembled layshafts with spur, removed from the transmission in one piece (ie. just remove the screw that holds the layshaft inside the transmission). In other words, not just the layshafts, but the entire assembled layshaft/spur assemblies. Seeing them side-by-side won't give the measurements I've been trying to get...but, it would provide a visual representation to determine if the Taylor gas assembly positions the spur to an equal (or almost equal) distance from the 'inside' end of the layshaft as the stock electric assembly does.
 
This is just a quick update on my previous idea of replacing the stock slipper with the Taylor RC layshaft & spur carrier, and the Blackbone Baja gears. With the help of someone on FB, we finally determined that there WAS a good possibility my idea was doable. Even though Mike, himself, said it's not possible, Brian & I felt otherwise. So, I decided to go ahead, order the parts, and find out. Worst-case scenario, it doesn't work, and I either return (if possible) the parts for a refund, or sell the parts as 'used' and take the loss. Anyway, I don't want to 'hijack' this thrad...so, I'll just direct those who might be interested to the thread where I posted my findings:

Electric VESLA with Taylor layshaft
 
One thing I forgot to mention...I did run into one minor problem - the installed length of the layshaft (ie. with the "retaining bolt" in the outside end of the layshaft) is approx 5mm further out, thus it extends slightly beyond the inside of the gear cover. To remedy this problem, I extended the width of the gear cover. And, to eliminate (as much as possible) the glue seams between the original gear cover pieces, and what I used to extend it, I sprayed it black, topped with several layers of a clear satin& finish enamel. Sure, I could have just cut/drilled a hole...but, as you can see, I was able to 'save' the Kraken RC logo.

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