Engine wont start :(

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tizdaz

tizdaz

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hi guys ive posted this on our club forum also so when i refer to deeside thats why as ive copied & pasted! so here goes......

Bare with me guys, bit of an essay this but want to explain in full detail so you can try help me out!

Well as those that went noticed, today was the 1st time i had major prob!

1st of all, i thought summit was up cuz when i started the engine 1st time in deeside & tried to take the choke off it would stall. Thought nothing of it really as it ran fine with the choke open.. or so i thought.

Anyway when we got to hoylake (after a slight detour on the way! lol mart ^^ ) again it started fine but the choke had to stay open for the engine to keep running. Ran it for a while ..a good 20min then disaster! ..hit a fuckin crater or summit & my beetle bounced in the air about 4 foot, doin cartwheels & all sorts of poop, after it came to a stand still it ran for about 5 seconds then stalled.

So i went over to inspect for damage after the slight miss-hap! but all was fine except for the stall, at this time i thought nowt of it cuz the fuel tank was empty as it only had about 1/4 of a tank in it. But i did wonder at the time cuz usually when fuel runs out in my beetle it revs high for 1 or 2 sec then just cuts out, but this time after the cartwheels it did it just bogged down then died.

Anyway after filling tank up would it fiddlestick start! I tried everything i could, choke on/off, took out spark plug to check for spark, which it was, turned it over a few times with spark plug out to get rid of excess fuel & even tipped my bettle upside down & pulled it over few times to get any unburnt fuel out. Still... .no avail :(

At this point i give up & packed up. Now when i got home ive had a closer look.. The air filter seemd to have alot of fuel on it (i run stock filter with outerwears) so this means for somereason my engine was flooding & im guessing this was why it would only run with the choke open?

So what could have caused it? & why would it only start/run with the choke open Even right from the start it wouldnt run with choke closed? Is this because there was lack of air getting into the carb? Have i put too much filter oil on my air filter & with the outerwears it wasnt getting enuff air through when i closed the choke?

At the mo ive come to this: I put too much oil on my air filter, so this along with the outerwears meant not enough air was getting to the carb, so im guessing this is why it would only run with my fully carb open, which caused major flooding & soaked my air filter naking it worse? But im puzzled as to why it only did this after the cartwheel episode, as up until then (a good 1 & 1/2 tanks) it ran fine & i had killed the engine a few times & it restarted with no probs... until this.

Any ideas guys :s ? at the mo my beetle stinks of fuel so its defo flooded as usually i very rarely smell any fule at from my beetle.

I know my fuel tank is a bit dodgy as the tubes kept sliding up & down through the grommet & they shouldnt as it should be air tight, so ive ordered a new fuel tank as i was in need of a new one anyway as ive had this prob before where my beetle would only run with the choke full open, but ive never had flooding & not being able to start my engine before :( ??

oh yeh almost forgot, the fuel i used had been sitting in my fuel bottle since the last time i used my beetle (think it was before xmas? not sure lol... can this cause any probs as after googling ive heard that water/moisture can get in the mix causing this kind of prob with the carb having to be open for engine to run?

I also just fitted a new piston ring & was running it in gently for the ring to seat properly.. ive checked the compression & it seems fine & smooth so don't think it can be anything to do with this.

Ive also looked at the coil & i have to admit the magent was might close to the flywheel! (maybe it got nudged when i had the carthweel episode & it dropped a mm or 2) anyway ive pushed it back up & now theres a visable gap between magent/flywheel.

& finally, tmrw i will check the carb flap make sure none of the holes are bunged up.. but to be honest i don't think they are cuz i gave it a good clean wit a cotton bud not long ago & i haven't used it since.

just damn frustrating that i hadn't used my beelte for ages, finally get chance to come out & this :(
 
Not sure what you are meaning by choke open and closed. Closed would be for starting and will give the motor less air and more fuel. Open would be your regular running position.

The banging could have cracked the rod in your spark plug making it less effective with less spark. Change it.

Is the spark plug wet when you pull it after trying to start it? If so, you are getting fuel but may not have enough spark.

The coil gap should be between 3-4mm. Thats only the thickness of a business card folded in half. Don't have it too high or you will weaken the spark.
Check out this: How-To Check your Coil Gap .

When you say there was allot of fuel in the filter, are you sure it was fuel and not 2 stroke oil? You will get some flow back of fuel normally in the carb and it will stain your filter a bit with oil.

Have you checked that your clunk hasn't got stuck up and is not in the fuel?
 
hiya mate, ta for helping :)

The spark from plug is good & strong, put it ontop of the engine casing & spark was bright.

The only thing is the coil gap, there was prob no more than 1mm gap! so it had definately moved but its back in place now with about 3-4mm gap. Just not had chance to try start her up yet as its still in bits & im gunna wait till my new fuel tank comes & will get some fresh fuel.

Aye the filter was defo soaked in fuel. When i squeezed it by hand could see the fuel drip & it smelt strong of fuel. In the past when ive took my filter off to clean (after every run) its never been that wet & never smelt of fuel.. so yup im pretty sure it was fuel.

Im beginning to think more & more it was the coil gap & because i kept trying to start it i ended up propper flooding my engine! :(
 
Last edited:
tizdaz said:
hiya mate, ta for helping :)

The spark from plug is good & strong, put it ontop of the engine casing & spark was bright.

The only thing is the coil gap, there was prob no more than 1mm gap! so it had definately moved but its back in place now with about 3-4mm gap. Just not had chance to try start her up yet as its still in bits & im gunna wait till my new fuel tank comes & will get some fresh fuel.

Aye the filter was defo soaked in fuel. When i squeezed it by hand could see the fuel drip & it smelt strong of fuel. In the past when ive took my filter off to clean (after every run) its never been that wet & never smelt of fuel.. so yup im pretty sure it was fuel.

Im beginning to think more & more it was the coil gap & because i kept trying to start it i ended up propper flooding my engine! :(
Click to expand...

The coil gap should be 0.3mm and not 3mm?? Check BtB's 'how to' to confirm but if you have it at 3mm there is no chance of it starting!! I would def try a new plug as well once you have reset the coil.
 
Also remove the pre-filter and outerwares cover when you come to start it again just to eliminate any issues with over oiling. Once you have got it running again put em back on & tweak the tuning if req'd.
 
a bit of bad luck there mate! were you on hoylake beach on the wirral when it went pete tong?

fuelling-wise... something's telling me carb trouble. have you stripped the carb down yet and looked at the little rubber diaphragm inside? or the tiny plunger inside may have come adrift. i had this a few years back. i was getting in such a mood with the car, it just had to happen on a track day too. after lots of swearing and blisters forming i went home. i swapped all sorts, part for part with my other "working" FG and tried it. sods law, the carb was the last thing i changed over and hey presto, it worked. so i set about stripping the carb down, lookin at each part as it came off. when i held up the diaphragm it had the smallest of nicks in it...

anyway, just a thought. hope you manage to find something soon!
 
oki ta for info guys, will get a new plug even though its sparking good but ya never know when its bolted in.

will also double check the gap & reset if need be, its just still odd how it ran fine most the day, then at the end of day after a big roll etc it just died & flooded :s
 
also look inside the tank... since the fuel lines move around the clunk might have lodged itself and pinch off the line after the tumble... no worries about a leak. these tanks don't want airtight. that is actually a bad thing and causes flooding like btb was talking about a breather line. if the tank breather is plugged then the tank will pressurize and start pushing too much fuel into the engine
 
i ordered a new fuel tank + spark plug over weekend so gunna fit them see what happens failing that, new carb which ive made another thread about, just un-decided weather to go for a 603 (which is what ive been using) or the 688 :s
 
I think the 603 is the upgrade from the 668? They really have the same specs so not sure what makes one better then the other.
Hope it gets fixed and run!!
 
ok mate, ive had so many problems, n that one too, only ran with carb on.. my problem was head was slightly loose letting in air so needed more fuel to run engine, after head kit fitted. U say u put new piston ring in. check it out buddy
 
Just thought about the carb thing again. Wonder if the 603 was made for the zenoah and the 668 was made for the CY. That would make the motors different but the same.;) Kinda like different models of TV's that are the same.
 
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