Lessons learned: 2mm copper head gaskest / ADA manifold gaskets

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KrashKrieg

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Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes / problems.


Not everyone will have these same isses but here is my story:


I bought an upgrade kit for my stock 26cc motor.


RACE PORTED 30.5cc Big-Bore Combo Kit 4.25+ HP (+2mm Stuffed Crank)


I had a pretty straight forward build that took about 6 hours,


enjoyed doing it and it started right up when completed...but blues were to come...


The kit uses a 2mm copper gasket.


You must use a thin layer of grey Permatex (and only grey!) and very thin layer on bottom of jug and top of base.


I learned red definitely does not work worth a crap for head gaskets.


Second thing I learned about is the ADA Billet aluminum manifold.


It comes with thick teflon gaskets.


Others may have luck with these, but I found they to deform pretty easily and don't seal well at all.


Next I then tried using graphite coated steel gaskets since I had bought a set of these. You have to use shorter bolts since the ADA is a 2/3 the width of stock manifold.


I had great luck with the exhaust gasket of the same type..seals real well.


It seems these do not work so well aluminum to aluminum.


I added grey permatex and found out you can't use permatex with the graphite coated steal, but also doesn't seal properly, they leaked again, the graphite and permatex don't seam to mix.


So...I went back to plain old paper gaskets and all issues went away!


I was finally able to run for 15 full minutes today rippin' it up with my new engine without issues!!!!


(then the grub screw on gear of belt drive loosened up so it was time to split at that point, but more to run tomorrow!)


All these issues took several weeks to figure all out between work / life..yada yada....


so I hope that I can save someone some heartache if doing similar upgrades.


BTW...The engine seems to be quite the beast now :D


The belt drive is my favorite hop-up. :cool:


If I hadn't forgot to locktite one grub screw, it would have performed flawlessly.
 
Great info.

Something I have learned on the belt drive pullies, is the last shaft set screw flat varies in distance from the gear plate from vehicle to vehicle. It is due to the placement of the shaft in the brake hub/coupler. Sometimes the set screw catches the corner of where the flat ends (outside edge). If you enlarge the shaft flat you can eliminate the chance of a problem.
 
You never want to use sealant on the intake and carb gaskets. It'll clog the pulse port, and it's a female dog to get off once it cures. Also, I've never had a problem with the ADA Teflon gaskets. I run them in my MT and my 5T. I did have to shorten the carb bolts about 5mm to get a good seal, though.
 
Deluge said:
You never want to use sealant on the intake and carb gaskets. It'll clog the pulse port, and it's a female dog to get off once it cures. Also, I've never had a problem with the ADA Teflon gaskets.

I run them in my MT and my 5T. I did have to shorten the carb bolts about 5mm to get a good seal, though.
Click to expand...
That's what that little hole is called! Pulse port...

I knew it was important to keep clear, and yes, that did get a little clogged so I thought it had to do with my last issue.

Deluge, I remembered your posts when I said not everyone will have the same issues.

I don't know how you run the teflon though;

both were so deformed when I took them off that they were probably clogging the pulse port as well

and I would have had to re-cut the main holes to match up properly.
 
I prefer the Permatex copper spray a gasket.

This is what you use on full size copper head gaskets or spacers. Just spray on a couple wet , but not heavy, coats and let dry a bit.

Also don't recommend regular RTV. If its Permatex brand always use the "Ultra". I usually use black, but don't think there is much difference between that and blue and I think gray is a little higher temp then Ultra Copper being the highest.
 
Never had any luck with the Permatex spray a gasket. Even after its cured, put a little gasoline on a rag and it will wipe right off. I use copper base gaskets, 2 and 4 bolt. Trim them to fit- cylinder area-transfer tunnels, soften with heat- brighten the copper gently-evenly with 220, apply a very thin film of ultra copper to both sides, then torque to spec. The sealant adds a few thousands squish. I never use paper gaskets on a 2 bolt, its rough on the base flanges. - As for the stainless steel, graphite gaskets? No luck on the base- leaked instantly. No doubt because they compress 40%- not good for a 2 bolt.
 
krashkrieg said:
Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes / problems.Not everyone will have these same isses but here is my story:

I bought an upgrade kit for my stock 26cc motor.

RACE PORTED 30.5cc Big-Bore Combo Kit 4.25+ HP (+2mm Stuffed Crank)

I had a pretty straight forward build that took about 6 hours,

enjoyed doing it and it started right up when completed...but blues were to come...

The kit uses a 2mm copper gasket.

You must use a thin layer of grey Permatex (and only grey!) and very thin layer on bottom of jug and top of base.

I learned red definitely does not work worth a crap for head gaskets.

Second thing I learned about is the ADA Billet aluminum manifold.

It comes with thick teflon gaskets.

Others may have luck with these, but I found they to deform pretty easily and don't seal well at all.

Next I then tried using graphite coated steel gaskets since I had bought a set of these. You have to use shorter bolts since the ADA is a 2/3 the width of stock manifold.

I had great luck with the exhaust gasket of the same type..seals real well.

It seems these do not work so well aluminum to aluminum.

I added grey permatex and found out you can't use permatex with the graphite coated steal, but also doesn't seal properly, they leaked again, the graphite and permatex don't seam to mix.

So...I went back to plain old paper gaskets and all issues went away!

I was finally able to run for 15 full minutes today rippin' it up with my new engine without issues!!!!

(then the grub screw on gear of belt drive loosened up so it was time to split at that point, but more to run tomorrow!)

All these issues took several weeks to figure all out between work / life..yada yada....

so I hope that I can save someone some heartache if doing similar upgrades.

BTW...The engine seems to be quite the beast now :D

The belt drive is my favorite hop-up. :cool:

If I hadn't forgot to locktite one grub screw, it would have performed flawlessly.
Click to expand...
I had the same issues with the soft Teflon cylmder to intake manifold. There is not enough metal to stay sealed for very long- even with a captured design intake-same story. The fix is to use Zen reinforced gasket- jug to intake. Had no troubles with the teflon that fits between the carb-intake, It has double the sealing surface. Other folks may have had no leaks-- I never lucked out and sealed for long.
 
have any of you guys tried loctite 515 for sealing gaskets(they may have changer that number now) ,it's there gasket eliminator ,I use it on everything but works best on head and base gaskets,designed to seal crankcases that use no gaskets but it will work with gaskets also . Roger
 
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