My thoughts on "clones"

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Range-RC

Range-RC

Active Member
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
Clones...I think a more accurate term for what we call clones and knock-offs would be the term "generic" What I know about this industry is common practice with many many items from groceries to electronics.
In most all cases I can assure you HPI is still getting payed every time Kingmotor or anyone else offers over a 90% similar item to the market. I will use Kingmotor for example but applies to others as well. Most of these companys do not produce their own molds and tooling which would drive their costs too high to offer the "cheaper" version.
They make a deal with HPI for say 10,000 tires without the HPI logo and they get a discount because of the quanity , HPI will redue some of their own molds to make the Kingmotor tire production run...often in the same place. Most commonly the tires will be indentical to the HPI minus the logo. This does not mean every part is identical but ushually they are because it would cost HPI more to change over to a different plastic/rubber etc. The magic number is around 90% similar or more... Kingmotor or anyone else would be violating I imagine numerous copyright laws to be making their own parts...unless they paid a patent fee first to HPI.
Anyway, my point being this is common practice with many products and is most cases you still end up with a quality product at the end of the day. These companys are not stealing HPI's ideas...they buy them from HPI, there are always a few exceptions but If I were to build another one which would be all modded out anyway...I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a "clone". Just my 2 cents :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
the whole clone issue go,s on and on people for them and some against, i myself own a clone baja made by sq it has had its faults but on the whole been worth the money, the other day i seen a very early 5b it was brand new and from old stock and to be honest i was,nt impressed with the quality of this original hpi buggy, as i see it hpi are just another company who sell this design along with sq, k,m rovan and others. alltho hpi retail for a lot more.
 
ooohh, a can of worms ere... ha ha!

i feel this debate has been brewing for some time now. i can see and i'm open with the points mentioned above, just one thing bugs me and that's about the copyright and patent of this particular design of car (and the 5T for that matter now). i've looked (please correct me if i'm wrong) on HPI boxes of the 5b and 5t, and i can't find any mark regarding its patent and copyright to HPI. we've all seen (or might have) when browsing on HPI's site the chap who designed it, he's also worked for kyosho too and other companies. maybe he's a design contractor who's drawings attracted HPI, who were the first to jump on the band wagon for this buggy, dooping owners into thinking it's HPI's. let's face it, it was a radical new design for largescale, and a welcome breath of fresh air too i think for these scale cars. perhaps he's kept his design and sells it to various companies for manufacture, and/or perhaps he manufactures and sells the mouldings too.

on the other hand, let's now presume HPI do own the patent for that design and not the designer, or other companies like rovan/KM/shengqi. the car's sold by the thousands now, very popular and pricey, it's the talk of the RC world, making a lot of money for HPI. then another manufacturer comes along and produces exactly the same model (it's not even slightly different), no differences what so ever, apart from it hasn't got HPI stamped about the place, and sells for half the price... how can HPI just stand there and let it happen if they own that design? if it was my own model company losing revenue through having a design copied, i'd be seriously ticked off and want to take them to the cleaners!!! that's like a major car manufacturer (like ford or someone) producing a car exactly the same as another competitor and selling it on without an agreement or joint venture.. otherwise it just doesn't happen. there's allsorts of possibilities over it i suppose. yet, i'm still thinking about a point raised by range-rc regarding HPI receiving a percentage of sales from the likes of KM etc. food for thought i think...

the 4WD thing... ever wondered why HPI haven't released a 4WD version of their 5T or 5B yet? the first buggy i saw, being 4WD and identical to HPI's was by RedCat, and as we know KM have done a 4WD "5T". it was shortly before i first saw redcat's 4WD buggy i was waiting to see/hear about HPI's possible 4WD release, but it never came.. wonder if they will now as it's already been done by another company?..

i dunno, things just don't add up with this whole clone issue. i guess if you work for HPI (or you're the designer) then you might know the situation. as said above, you're paying less for a so called clone (can't they think of a better term than that LOL) and, in my view, you're still getting a good quality car. people can say their HPI is better in every way n so on, i've seen these things on the track and they're good, but they're just as prone to breaking just like any other producer of RC car. i'm chuffed to bits with my shengqi, nothing much has been changed on it (it's all listed on the thread i wrote) and i'm glad i didn't pay the thereabouts £750 for a HPI in this country as when compared, there's no difference in the quailty of parts.
 
Following up on this line of thought, I get the impression its about so called manufacturers "rovan/KM/shengqi" et al, they pay a licensing fee to the hpi.

Is it because the clone manufacturers do not have an original thought or is it because they see a band wagon and jump on it ?

Would be interesting to see more info on the alledged 90% back hander tho, then we could all see the transparency but I think that is highly unlikely.

At the end of the day, HPI must be laughing all the way to the bank - no need to sue anyone for copyright and thinking what mugs are out there buying their stuff against a clone.

What a great line of thought for a piece in the papers
 
You have a great point for sure about the designer selling to more than one company...could very well be the case. If someone had the foresight to see the ever exspanding future of the chassis they may have made the decision not to sell the patents to any one company. Patents are not always on the part itself and often on the process or the actual mold they use.
I'm am open to and have seen many ideas as to how these "clones" came about and I think everyone is partially correct, there are allot of variables here and exceptions. What I tried to describe above is the most likley scenerio in my mind since I have seen it done with other products before..albeit non of which were hobby related.
I came across another thread where someone said more or less.."Don't ever believe HPI had anything to do as a supplier etc for the other companys"
I simply don't believe that for a minute even though this person has spoken directly to HPI and was told that...That really doesn't mean much as that is actually a normal response when your subbing work out to other companies because their responsibilty was met when they provide the molds or processes for a price to the "clone" guys. I would bet my last dollar that HPI is involved with some..if not most of the others at some level. These guys simply couldn't compete if they had to come up with identical tooling, and possibly also risk violating numerous patents, much cheaper to buy the runtime and relabel the product from HPI in bulk.
Again. I am not saying this is definatley the case here...just in my opinion by far the most likely. As far as HPI publicly denouncing their involvement...thats a typical politically correct response if they feel the "clones" are viewed as sub-par or inferior by the general marketplace(I don't personally). HPI in no way obligated or has to take ownership here since these products are relabeled and brought to market under another company name.
Lastly, I don't believe HPI is losing any market here to "copiers" because I pretty much know for a fact you just can't do it, especially to a large company..they would sue the hell outta them. I don't know for certain all the exact circumstances here..I can only speculate and make what I think is a somewhat educated decision...and for the time being in my mind, HPI is still making the money here, or perhaps as you said the designed retained the rights...quite possible as well and a valid point. Your thoughts guys?

Lets beat this topic to death!...I'm bored...lol :lol:
 
Last edited:
Clone's or Not?
You can call it anything you want... They are making them cheaper than HPI due to labor cost'''''' Plus like anything in the USA people want there cut.... As I have traveled thru Asia for the last 20 years and seen all these so called clones and they run them as hard as any other car or plane.. I have been to many factories in China and the production lines are not truly different than any other.. Just labor cost is lower.. Most of the china's beleave if you sell it for lower they would sell more than others....
I have had HPI's and Losi's and all the Japanese brands and They all break the same way... In many pieces, how else would they been in busy if they didn't break.... I'm not sure why there is so much drama over if you by a clone or not... My friends and I race all the time sometimes they win with the HPI's and sometimes the clones win... At the end of the day we are all still buying parts because we all broke something.... Most people that say they have a better quaility car from HPI.. But I can by on clone and complete hop it up to be faster stronger than the HPI and still havn't spent the amount of money it would take to do an HPI Buggy!!!
It's truly a matter of your income.. Being in the Military we do get a large income so most of us have to budget are cash very tightly so as I deploy and have liberty ports in Hong Kong I locally pick up my RC gear.. I think the only gear I don't use fron Chine is the Radio's. I still enjoy my Hitec gear and the price is not up there like Futaba!!! Even though most of the insides are made in Chine and shipped to Japan then put together by the Japanese and called Futaba... Have you ever looked at the mother board on a Futaba radio? LOL
HPI can kiss my A#$, My Savage SS had issuses out of the box, BAD transmittion from the start so I opened it up to see if something was wrong inside and they forgot to put a small gear inside it so I called sent them a photo of the trasmittion where the gear was suppose to be and they told me they could not give me a replacment because I opened it and i might of been the person who lost the gear!!!! I mean I only put on tank of gas in the truck and it never even moved on it's own. So I sent it back to them and they still clamed it was not there fault>>> Later I got a different HPI and the shock set that came with this care was missing the threads on the top side so I sent them a photo of it and they told me I would have to send in the shock before they could even think about sending me a new one... So 7 to 10 days to them then 5 days for them to look at it then 7 to 10 days back to me.... WTF??? Plus I have to pay to send the item back..... Clones have no true support but I can get the parts ASAP...

Mike
 
HPI lost me as a customer with my savage. the 21 version. The fact they released a truck with a dif case designed for 4 internal gears but only incl 2, which stripped on my second qualifier when I changed to tires that actually gripped.... I waited 2 months for gears and sold the thing on rcu. apparently there were LOTS of gears needed for that thing... my modded tmaxx was more dependable and tmaxx are junk.

let's face it, asian mfg's know how to make money. I love my fender guitars too, and I just bought a squire version over christmas. it's made in china. plays great. my bass was made in mexico and plays great. even great american mfg's sub out to other countries.

that said, hpi mfg's in asia too, but they had a corner on the market so could keep the price up. it used to be a thing of pride to see made in canada/usa/uk but nowadays it means more made in the country that will cost us more for the end product...

I am all for companies farming work out to other countries. let's keep Canada Green and let the mfg pollution be done somewhere else (I have a friend teaching english in China right now and sends me monthly updates on his findings and I howl reading his take on living there)
 
I have a thought on this debate...

What if the km's, hpi's, and all the others are truly made in the same factory and are in fact all identical? HPI just has a few parts with their insignia applied but other than that the same?

Maybe HPI buys them just like km?

I don't know, I don't own any of them, it was just a thought.
 
pipeous said:
and on that thought, maybe it costs more for the hpi because of the added tooling to add the insignia?
Click to expand...

Yup!

I don't know, but I've read that clone baja's can be bought for 500-650 shipped... Well I can't find any less than 850 bux USD, what's the deal? Where are you guys finding these deals? I saw someone on here had a nice looking buggy with a black body and rear mutant-worm pipe for 600 shipped? On ebay right now the HPI's are cheaper than the km's?
 
Trip said:
I have a thought on this debate...

What if the km's, hpi's, and all the others are truly made in the same factory and are in fact all identical? HPI just has a few parts with their insignia applied but other than that the same?

Maybe HPI buys them just like km?

I don't know, I don't own any of them, it was just a thought.
Click to expand...


that crossed my mind too!! :rolleyes: when we compared the car to a 5B, there's no difference in their parts quality, meaning how they flex, dimensions...etc kind of confirmed that thought anyway
 
yeah that thread shows alot comparing the KM with the HPI... interesting read. yet I'm still standing with my findings between the car I received when compared to my mates HPI. few differences yes, like electronics and other little areas like i already mentioned, but overall, you'd swear the parts had come from the same moulds. nice comparison thread you drew up by the way!!
 
Now I have heard it all! HPIs are dearer because of the cheap labour used to make the clones. ROFL!!! Where do you think they make the HPIs, Manhattan????

I find it incredible how so many people get on their high horse about these dastardly crooks who are making illegal copies and stealing the intellectual property of HPi. This is total conjecture, and I too would be flabbergasted if HPI wasn't getting some sort of royalty for every clone made. But we just don't know

To assume otherwise is the same as believing in the Easter Bunny
 
Wow this is certainly making for an interesing read.
About the so-called "clones" like mentioned earlier is it really fair to label them as "clones"? I mean, lf you look at the ansmann virus 1/8 nitro buggy it is the same as the hyper 7 (i have them both) but do i call it the hyper clone, no. What about the immense amount of battery chargers that are available that are exactly the same, do we call them "clones"? Again no. Look at the range of products from LRP then look at the range from Nosram, hmm same factory me thinks, but which one is the "clone"?
From what i know there are factories in China that make products from a designers drawings/specs and there are factories that produce their own product to sell to the different names. If you remember the Maverick Stealth 1/8 nitro buggy brought into Europe through HPI Europe you will know that it is now known as the HPI Pulse 4.6(do we call this a "clone" or HPI Pulse?) so this fact rings true. One factory, one product, badged up differently.
I just feel that it is unfair to brand them as "clones" when no one knows for sure if they actually are???!!?!?!?!
Mine is a SQ Baja with parts/hopups from who ever i can get them from the quickest!!!!!:D:D
 
Back
Top