RANT: Disappointment with Horizon Hobby

[jaygreig]

I just have to let it out, then let it all go.

I figure I've spent roughly $6200 buying products from Horizon Hobby. Mostly in the form of Losi, Dynamite, ECX, Spektrum, and Vaterra. I have, like most products in the RC industry, had good ones and bad ones. I have just reached the point that I have had way more bad products from Horizon than I have good ones.
Without going into too much detail, I will just say that I have had issues with chargers, ESCs, drive trains on new kits, radios, brushless motors, etc. Most right out of the box. In fact I realized today that out of the last 11 products I have gotten from them, EVERY one has had to be fixed or returned. I would like to say that the only Horizon product I haven't had any "defect" issues with is my 5ive, but the hundred dollar 3300T rx decided it didn't want to function steering anymore on its second run. Is this me being too particular? Too picky? I know most of you will read this and think I'm a moron for one of two reasons:1 "You're obviously doing something wrong" or 2 "If you've gotten so many bad products from them, why do you keep buying from them?" How many of you reading this now are in the exact same boat I am?
Well, I am fairly adept at assembling, maintaining, and or fixing my RCs....as for the other, that is something I have vowed to remedy this very day. They will no longer be receiving my business to the point of not even purchasing any of their stock parts for my Losi. (ie aftermarket upgrades only) I really am not out to bash them so much as just to rant about what I had hoped was just a short run of bad luck. I now am of the mind that it wasn't bad luck, just bad products. I understand the desire of companies to maximize profits, but I can't see that being a sound business plan when it includes distributing inferior products. I guess at this point, I just feel taken by wasting my money on things that just flat out weren't worth it. Is it too much to expect that we spend our hard earned money, and expect something decent in return?

 

[nitrocat]

I have to agree with you there quality has slipped as of late but that could be the old CEO he got the boot at the first of summer or there about
Or it could be the new Ceo trying to boost profits

If it was the old it will get better
I hope it's not the new one because nothing will work for long then
Look on the bright side they have not filed for chapter 11 as some in our sport has
But to answer your question yes its not to much to expect a quality product for our money
So I will stand by you on this one I pledge to never purchase a Horzin product again till they fix there quality problems

 

[nitrocat]

Step up and take the pledge who's next don't be shy

 

[Tisane]

Aren't Horizon simply distributors?
Shouldn't your anger be directed at the original Manufacturer?

 

[nitrocat]

Aren't Horizon simply distributors?
Shouldn't your anger be directed at the original Manufacturer?

They speck the cars that they sell so if they have a price in mind for a 1/5 gas say 999.00
They go to a manufacturer and say what can I get for this then they sell it 1800 or so
They by all the production for a period of time like 2 years
They did this from Losi in the late 90's with a 1/10 gas truck the GTX
Then they bought Losi and now it's just a design company and they farm everything out to be made
some stuff is boxed by them
As they say the good die young

 

[Tisane]

Ok so they set the price on products they distribute, otherwise known as a mark up.

My point is CY build the engines in Losi cars, so should your engine let go five mins after starting its down to CY not Horizon. (Provided it wasn't user error)
The radio in Losi cars is made by Spektrum, so should your transmitter pack up out of the box again that's down to Spektrum not Horizon.
The car itself (5T for example) I presume is actually made and built by Losi so any failure of a part of the car not caused by general wear and tear or abuse is down to Losi.

I come from airsoft, I hope I don't have to explain that to anyone...lol
And the same is very evident in that hobby too.

VFC make your gun
Armex are official distributors in the UK anyway.
Airsoft shop sells you the gun.

Losi makes your car
Horizon are official distributor
RC shop sells you the car

Armex in the Airsoft world do exactly the same job as Horizon do in the RC world, but have no input into the actual manufacturing of the item.

Horizon for a fee obviously just make things slightly easier for Losi in that Losi don't have to distribute to 1000s of hobby shops worldwide themselves, they just send x amount of units to Horizon and they distribute to shops worldwide.

 

[Revolauncher]

Horizon has controlling stock if not total ownership in all of the brands they carry. Spektrum radio, Dynamite racing, Team Losi racing, and the North American dist. for JR radio to name a few... Brands does not mean manufacturer though, you can be sure they source manufacturing from several vendors they contract for a period of time, and being worldwide their facilities are spread across continents... I have not had the buyer's remorse to the extent of the OP, but there are hits and misses. The original 8ight platform is and has been brilliant to own and race since day one for me. I have found no reason to upgrade in over 7 years of use. What is odd is the entry level 1/10 scale version of the platform is not nearly as durable and requires more frequent service and the 5ive's 1/5th scale version is more durable than the competition's 4wd platforms, but not as stout as the 1/8th. scales and original intended version. It is as if the engineers just click the mouse up and down 15% and 20% scale difference and called it a day without considering weight, speed, and performance differences effect on parts wear. I noticed when Gil Losi left in 2007, a drop off in personal service.... they are still near the forefront of innovation, and many good people vested in the hobby, but I remember when they knew me by name and shook my hand at races when I was one of the first in line to run a JRX2 against Associated, now you are a number with an order history, and if you have a reoccurring issue, you are doing something wrong. After all it couldn't possibly be something they missed, ie. poor materials, inadequate design, quality control problem. It happens, people. 7 of the 8 models I own are Losi/TLR branded, the other HPI. I disproved the Traxxas syndrome years ago...There is a company that has really ignored large scale enthusiasts!

 

[nitrocat]

Ok so they set the price on products they distribute, otherwise known as a mark up.

My point is CY build the engines in Losi cars, so should your engine let go five mins after starting its down to CY not Horizon. (Provided it wasn't user error)
The radio in Losi cars is made by Spektrum, so should your transmitter pack up out of the box again that's down to Spektrum not Horizon.
The car itself (5T for example) I presume is actually made and built by Losi so any failure of a part of the car not caused by general wear and tear or abuse is down to Losi.

I come from airsoft, I hope I don't have to explain that to anyone...lol
And the same is very evident in that hobby too.

VFC make your gun
Armex are official distributors in the UK anyway.
Airsoft shop sells you the gun.

Losi makes your car
Horizon are official distributor
RC shop sells you the car

Armex in the Airsoft world do exactly the same job as Horizon do in the RC world, but have no input into the actual manufacturing of the item.

Horizon for a fee obviously just make things slightly easier for Losi in that Losi don't have to distribute to 1000s of hobby shops worldwide themselves, they just send x amount of units to Horizon and they distribute to shops worldwide.

No Horzin makes the 5ive
They own Losi or what's left of it
There is still a lot of great people there just not as many
The 5ive is made over seas the only thing that's done in us is boxing up some of the kits in 1/10 1/8 now but this may have changed to because I have not been racing 1/8 anymore just one event a year and as many 1/5 as I can find but not enough to see my friends that work there and other manufacturers
The economy in my state is very bad and money doesn't grow on trees anymore [emoji24] so we don't race its a shame I have met a lot of great people across the U.S.

 

[atom3624]

Here's my problem ...

I REALLY like Losi products.

I've an LST2 specced Raminator - changed to BL - which is great.
I've an MLST Raminator and also a micro LST.

They're great little beasts.
Most of the upgrade parts are Losi, as I find them generally the best quality.
I tried MSR6 Integy shocks - they're crap!
Hard anodised threaded Losi shocks are the best ...

Al.

 

[nitrocat]

Don't get this wrong Losi is the best out there hands down for cars and parts and service
We were just talking about how it has slipped some in quality control
I know I was having fun in the above posts about quitting Horzin
But anyone who knows me will tell you that's not going to happen they make the best cars on the planet in there Losi brand
And till someone else makes a better product here I will stay

 

[jaygreig]

I really hadn't expected such a response to my post, I again have to state that I really am not trying to bash Horizon out right.. More of a generalized complaint. I have to agree with the direction the thread has taken though.
Out of every kit I've had or have driven now, nothing has been as enjoyable/good as the Losi products. The only one to really give a run for their money, at least in the 1/10 SCT genre, is Associated (IMO). I honestly could only be happier with my 5ive if I had the spare change to get jet engine for it.
The rant may have been warranted in my case due to my "bad luck" with them and their brands, but I also believe that ANYONE spending ANY amount of money should have a reasonable expectation that they are going to get (at minimum) a functioning product. Now granted, I also believe in getting what you pay for, so from the other side...should you get the same quality and durability in a kit that costs $250 as you would a kit in the $400 range? Absolutely not.
I do emphatically believe that person spending the $250 should get a R/C car (a several hundred dollar toy mind you) that will at least run as intended, not withstanding any outside or "human" factors. Do I believe this type of kit should be "bulletproof"? Of course not, but it should at the very least provide the overgrown kid (or in this case, an actual kid) with a kit that will last more than two runs in a parking lot. How much past that depends on too many factors to mention, but the expectation of a certain quality out of the box remains.

 

[atom3624]

Not a problem.
Make the point, that way people start noticing.

It was often said that earlier LST1 and LST2 models were better made than later ones - something like what happened to Mercs about 8 years ago.

Enough people complained, they 'saw the light' and now they're bulletproof again.
I think Losi are similarly 'proactive' and do listen to customer complaints, particularly on a really quite influential forum like this.

Al.

 

[nitrocat]

Not a problem.

Make the point, that way people start noticing.



It was often said that earlier LST1 and LST2 models were better made than later ones - something like what happened to Mercs about 8 years ago.



Enough people complained, they 'saw the light' and now they're bulletproof again.

I think Losi are similarly 'proactive' and do listen to customer complaints, particularly on a really quite influential forum like this.



Al.

You had me till you said quite influential [emoji95]

 

[Tisane]

Well consider me educated...lol
So in short Horizon ARE Losi, amongst others...lol

And my two Losi products the DBXL and 5ive t have been a dream, no matter what i threw at them, I say that as my DBXL is now in other hands as I needed cash to fund 5ive t bits, these two products alone are responsible for dragging me back into the world of 1/5th and neither have left me disappointed, unlike the FG that put me off for quite a while.