Wide open throttle won't drive straight
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The manual say never go toe in. Is that just because the steering performance will be poor or will it damage the truck?
Ok, so I never read the manual, and mine was used so never go a manual anyway. lol.
I don't know why they say you shouldn't use toe in but its probably not going to break the truck, as long as it is a degree or two either in toe-in or toe-out. The pro's and cons of either are varied, depending on other factors like caster and camber, but for the purposes of this vehicle, we could (wisely or not) assume the following:
Toe-out: Will provide better corner entry, and stabilised cornering, but straight line stability will be compromised.
Toe-in: Will compromise on corner entry but will provide better straight line stability.
I have found with on-road, 1/10th scale RC, that on a twisty track, its better to have some to-out, it helps with cornering, but on long tracks with high speed sections, a toe-in will provide stability at high speeds.
In the 'real world' of racing and also karts, remember that toe-in and toe-out, you will add rolling resistance, the more of either you apply, so you sacrifice on a bit of power, and also create more wear on the tires. But, this is not real world, and if you are not racing, you would want to have as much stability as possible so you can enjoy the truck, I am sure that you would prefer to sacrifice a little cornering by having a truck that goes in a straight line, right?
You wont damage the truck. Just make sure you remove as much play as possible on the steering linkages, your toe-in is only a few degrees and your steering saver is functional, without being too loose. If its too tight and you hit a curb, say good bye to your servo. Too lose and you will suffer with bad stability.
I am not an expert on this, but these are my findings, and I find it very difficult to believe that you will do any damage with a little toe in.
I don't know why they say you shouldn't use toe in but its probably not going to break the truck, as long as it is a degree or two either in toe-in or toe-out. The pro's and cons of either are varied, depending on other factors like caster and camber, but for the purposes of this vehicle, we could (wisely or not) assume the following:
Toe-out: Will provide better corner entry, and stabilised cornering, but straight line stability will be compromised.
Toe-in: Will compromise on corner entry but will provide better straight line stability.
I have found with on-road, 1/10th scale RC, that on a twisty track, its better to have some to-out, it helps with cornering, but on long tracks with high speed sections, a toe-in will provide stability at high speeds.
In the 'real world' of racing and also karts, remember that toe-in and toe-out, you will add rolling resistance, the more of either you apply, so you sacrifice on a bit of power, and also create more wear on the tires. But, this is not real world, and if you are not racing, you would want to have as much stability as possible so you can enjoy the truck, I am sure that you would prefer to sacrifice a little cornering by having a truck that goes in a straight line, right?
You wont damage the truck. Just make sure you remove as much play as possible on the steering linkages, your toe-in is only a few degrees and your steering saver is functional, without being too loose. If its too tight and you hit a curb, say good bye to your servo. Too lose and you will suffer with bad stability.
I am not an expert on this, but these are my findings, and I find it very difficult to believe that you will do any damage with a little toe in.
atom3624
Well-Known Member
I always understood effectively the opposite.
We are talking about FRONT wheels.
Toe-in will make it pointy, darty, and more UNstable in a straight line, but sharper turning into corners - think about it. The OUTSIDE wheel is steering possibly a little more than it should and has more weight so makes it turn sharper.
Toe-out will make turn-in LESS sharp, but consequently MORE stable in a straight line.
Al.
We are talking about FRONT wheels.
Toe-in will make it pointy, darty, and more UNstable in a straight line, but sharper turning into corners - think about it. The OUTSIDE wheel is steering possibly a little more than it should and has more weight so makes it turn sharper.
Toe-out will make turn-in LESS sharp, but consequently MORE stable in a straight line.
Al.
Not necessarily....for RWD cars, you typically have a little toe-in, you sacrifice some cornering entry, for straight line stability. FWD cars work a little different since the power through the wheels tends to pull them in, so you have a little toe-out. Those are generalisations so just a start point.
4WD cars have a mix of both, but normally you start with a little toe-in and go from there.
As I say, the camber and the castor are also contributors, the castor on most cars, incl the DBXL is provided by the wheel hub/kingpin angle, and is not adjustable. The camber you can adjust, and it would help to have a little negative camber (top of wheels leaning in).
I am a little confused by the DBXL setup because my steering links are would all the way in, and I still have toe-in, there is no way I could get toe-out at all. As mentioned though, the car is not new, its used, so who knows whats been done to it. Whats is for sure, even overpowered with a tuned pipe and 29cc conversion, it tracks dead straight under power.
I may not know much about steering geometry, but this is what works for me, no harm in the OP trying it at least....
4WD cars have a mix of both, but normally you start with a little toe-in and go from there.
As I say, the camber and the castor are also contributors, the castor on most cars, incl the DBXL is provided by the wheel hub/kingpin angle, and is not adjustable. The camber you can adjust, and it would help to have a little negative camber (top of wheels leaning in).
I am a little confused by the DBXL setup because my steering links are would all the way in, and I still have toe-in, there is no way I could get toe-out at all. As mentioned though, the car is not new, its used, so who knows whats been done to it. Whats is for sure, even overpowered with a tuned pipe and 29cc conversion, it tracks dead straight under power.
I may not know much about steering geometry, but this is what works for me, no harm in the OP trying it at least....
atom3624
Well-Known Member
4WD - start with toe-OUT, not in.
Applying power will pull the wheels in, closer to straight.
Agreed RWD / 2WD can be straight.
Straight / toe-in will make it pointy - sharp in corners, but not easy hammering straight.
Al.
Applying power will pull the wheels in, closer to straight.
Agreed RWD / 2WD can be straight.
Straight / toe-in will make it pointy - sharp in corners, but not easy hammering straight.
Al.
Ok Al, you won that argument, well done. Get yourself a cookie to celebrate.
In the interim, OP, I see you already have a lot of toe-out, so if you are ok with the way the car drives, then enjoy your DBXL, because apparently its doing things exactly as would be expected.
Or, you could try one of my suggestions, and maybe have a car that tracks dead straight, the way mine does.
It might be just the video's that you have posted, but to ME it looks like you have too much toe-out, maybe reduce it a little, closer to 0 degrees. It also looks like you have too much positive camber, which means the top of your front wheels are angled outwards. Maybe try adjust that so that the tops of the wheels are either upright, or leaning ever so slightly inwards. Lastly, do you have any droop on the front suspension? It pays to have some droop so that when the weight of the vehicle shifts backwards under acceleration, it doesn't lift the front wheels off the ground...we all know that 'wheelies' mean that you lose contact with the road, and reduce traction and steering.
I am sure Al will be around shortly to shoot that theory down too, but hey, what have you got to lose by trying right?
The thing is, with making adjustments like this, is that you need to do them one at a time, doing them all at once, means you might never know which one caused the problem in the first place.
In the interim, OP, I see you already have a lot of toe-out, so if you are ok with the way the car drives, then enjoy your DBXL, because apparently its doing things exactly as would be expected.
Or, you could try one of my suggestions, and maybe have a car that tracks dead straight, the way mine does.
It might be just the video's that you have posted, but to ME it looks like you have too much toe-out, maybe reduce it a little, closer to 0 degrees. It also looks like you have too much positive camber, which means the top of your front wheels are angled outwards. Maybe try adjust that so that the tops of the wheels are either upright, or leaning ever so slightly inwards. Lastly, do you have any droop on the front suspension? It pays to have some droop so that when the weight of the vehicle shifts backwards under acceleration, it doesn't lift the front wheels off the ground...we all know that 'wheelies' mean that you lose contact with the road, and reduce traction and steering.
I am sure Al will be around shortly to shoot that theory down too, but hey, what have you got to lose by trying right?
The thing is, with making adjustments like this, is that you need to do them one at a time, doing them all at once, means you might never know which one caused the problem in the first place.
crankestein
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Any videos on the dirt with a full pass... not blipping and on the road. Drive it all across to full throttle. My X2 and most buggies always pull a tad bit to the left or right. On the dirt is barely noticeable.
It looks to me the oil diff combo is too tight almost on road set up, and/or loose steering rack.
It looks to me the oil diff combo is too tight almost on road set up, and/or loose steering rack.