Cant believe the pettiness of some people

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macgregor

macgregor

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I just cant understand the pettiness of some people.Just had a listing for a km rev 2 speed removed from Ebay as it had a picture of a cloned pipe of a well known manufacturer on it. This car comes with the pipe fitted as standard and in no way was the pipe reffered to as the oyher companys pipe. So why have it removed? Are they scared this pipe is better than theres at a fraction of the cost?. I just don't see what the problem is.....
 

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that is pathetic, i run the same pipe i paid 60quid for it off ebay i put a few pics of it on this forum all the haters said it would snap it was poor quality etc, but 6months on its still going strong. anyone who pays £200 for a pipe for any r,c car is mad i used to pay around £200 for a pipe for my motorcross bike and a lot more materials go into making them,
 
i have the km clone of the ddm pipe :D & my god its good, id never pay more than a ton for a pipe cant see the point, why pay for something over priced, when you can have a cheap one that does almost the same ?

tbh some of the baja mods that cost in excess of £150 are just greedy money wanters & i will not buy there product but just buy the clone stuff, works just as good!
 
My problem is every time I try to sell the pipe on Ebay someone who shall remain nameless gets it taken off as it in breach of copyright.I never refer to the pipe being a dominator pipe it is always called a tuned pipe. So what is the problem?.I cant understand why using a picture of a cloned pipe is in breach of copyright.I have seen listings that clearly say DDM style pipe and these seem to be left alone.....Maybe its just me but I think it could be someone at a particular company doesn't like me or my shop.
 
macgregor said:
I just cant understand the pettiness of some people.Just had a listing for a km rev 2 speed removed from Ebay as it had a picture of a cloned pipe of a well known manufacturer on it. This car comes with the pipe fitted as standard and in no way was the pipe reffered to as the oyher companys pipe. So why have it removed? Are they scared this pipe is better than theres at a fraction of the cost?. I just don't see what the problem is.....
Click to expand...

The problem is it's an exact copy of a tradmark item and it's illegal.

Let me explain it this way:
Say you were in the Baja business and spent months and $1000's designing aftermarket products. Now you put your product up for sale and within months it is being copied and sold at a lower price due to cheaper labor and materials costs. Now lets say these cheap counterfit parts are being sold all over ebay and now you have to spend immense amounts of time contacting ebay to have the items removed. Now not only have you lost sales you have lost time and money to protect what is legally yours.

Now you sit with a huge pile of parts you can't sell. Your mortage isn't getting paid, Your kids are staving, The car gets repossessed. Now I ask you does it not matter anymore?

People have to realize that blatent copying of parts down to the smallest details is illegal in most countries. And generally, selling of exact copies is also illegal.

There was no reason for KM to make items exact copies of other products except to create brand confusion within the market. And to make it near impossible to distinguish counterfit over genuine.

You don't see Toyota making exact copies of Fords now do you?

I guarantee if you were ever in business and this happened to you you would be pissed.

It amazes me that people don't grasp the problem with this and can't understand the long term effects this has on new devolopment. If this is allowed to continue on ebay eventually the people spending all this time and money to bring you new products are going to just say screw it.

Once again KM has done nothing for devolopment of new products all their designs are stolen from other companies.

If you are comfortable buying counterfit items you might as well start printing currency on your home printer because in reality its the same thing!
Its Theft!!!!
 
Very well said indeed!

I would like a rear dom for my 5t but i wont buy one on ebay because its very
hard to tell whats a clone and whats the proper deal.. so in the end i'd rather pay
full wack for one from mmr for £132 :)
 
LOST IN MN said:
The problem is it's an exact copy of a tradmark item and it's illegal.

Let me explain it this way:
Say you were in the Baja business and spent months and $1000's designing aftermarket products. Now you put your product up for sale and within months it is being copied and sold at a lower price due to cheaper labor and materials costs. Now lets say these cheap counterfit parts are being sold all over ebay and now you have to spend immense amounts of time contacting ebay to have the items removed. Now not only have you lost sales you have lost time and money to protect what is legally yours.

Now you sit with a huge pile of parts you can't sell. Your mortage isn't getting paid, Your kids are staving, The car gets repossessed. Now I ask you does it not matter anymore?

People have to realize that blatent copying of parts down to the smallest details is illegal in most countries. And generally, selling of exact copies is also illegal.

There was no reason for KM to make items exact copies of other products except to create brand confusion within the market. And to make it near impossible to distinguish counterfit over genuine.

You don't see Toyota making exact copies of Fords now do you?

I guarantee if you were ever in business and this happened to you you would be pissed.

It amazes me that people don't grasp the problem with this and can't understand the long term effects this has on new devolopment. If this is allowed to continue on ebay eventually the people spending all this time and money to bring you new products are going to just say screw it.

Once again KM has done nothing for devolopment of new products all their designs are stolen from other companies.

If you are comfortable buying counterfit items you might as well start printing currency on your home printer because in reality its the same thing!
Its Theft!!!!
Click to expand...
The pipe is not an EXACT copy. Iam sure there is a thread on here somewhere listing the differences of the two pipes.. My point is at no time have I refered to this pipe as being a Dominator pipe i have always refered to it as a KM tuned pipe.Just because a product looks the same doesn't constitute copyright theft.If a product varies in some ways to the patented item then that patent does not apply to simalar product..To get back on subject what Iam annoyed about is the removal of my goods from Ebay when others list there products as DDM style pipes and do not have them removed surely that is more of a breach of copyright by using a companys name to sell your own product.
 
KM tuned pipe review
This is a pre-run review of the KM Rear Tuned Pipe.
This is not a performance review. That will come in spring when my son tries it out.

In this review we will compare it to the DDM Dominator. The DDM pipe is the only pipe that looks like the KM tuned pipe since it is where its design came from.
Before anyone gets heated over the debate of the KM copy, please look over the below information and you will see it is not as close a copy as you/we think.

Here is a bit on tuned pipes before we start.
A tuned pipe is tuned to a certain design to perform the best with a certain engine. Some pipes will not perform as well with different motors. The best tuned pipe is one you have hand made for your own motor. Ya, right. Most designers will try to design a pipe that will tune the best to a variety of makes and model of engine.
Here is a small diagram of what a tuned pipe does. It also allows you to see what happens to a pipe that is not a perfect match for your motor. http://www.bukupower.com/animateCorrect.html

The KM shape from a distance might look like the DDM but after inspection it differs greatly from it.

Here is the pipe above the DDM pipe:
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The exhaust header on the KM has been welded to the 1st part of the pipe instead of the flange being welded to the end of the pipe.
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A double weld can be seen where a small piece of pipe was added to help make the header pipe to expansion connect. Remember that any unsmooth or rough areas in the inside of the pipe can make it less effective (see the diagram).
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You can see where the pipe was pressed into the mold to form the pipe shape and scratched the pipe finish.
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Exit photo.
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The bracket fits right where it needed to be.
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Surprisingly not one piece of plastic is touched by the pipe anywhere.
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The exit tube just passes the wing to throw exhaust away.
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I can’t tell you enough the importance of torque. Using a torque wrench is the only way to insure the proper bolt tightness. I cranked on the bolts with my T handle allen wrench and could only get around ¾ of the proper torque. After using my torque wrench I was able to get it to the right tightness. The bolt head actually dents into the pipe flange when tight.
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I always use an epoxy of some sort to help ease the vibration back out and to seal the bolt to the pipe. My epoxy ends up burning but it holds just the same.
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Overall the KM pipe is smaller in all dimensions. Remember that with any pipe size or dimensions you change so does/can performance. Only a dyno could tell us the difference. It is a great low cost alternative at $50.00US. I am happy with it for the price we paid.

Dimensions KM (Left) vs. DDM (Right):
Smallest header measurement (Straight pipe from header): 21.5mm / 22.5mm
Length of pipe until 1st sign of pipe bend (Straight pipe from header): 86mm / 98mm
Width of pipe at bend (Both widest and thinnest): 21.5 to 25.5mm / 23.7 to 25.5mm
Fattest point of expansion chamber: 46.5mm / 52.5mm
__________________
If I had a million dollars I'd own them all.
 
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CSR260 said:
Very well said indeed!

I would like a rear dom for my 5t but i wont buy one on ebay because its very
hard to tell whats a clone and whats the proper deal.. so in the end i'd rather pay
full wack for one from mmr for £132 :)
Click to expand...

don,t get it from mmr it may be on back order,lol
 
macgregor said:
The pipe is not an EXACT copy. Iam sure there is a thread on here somewhere listing the differences of the two pipes.. My point is at no time have I refered to this pipe as being a Dominator pipe i have always refered to it as a KM tuned pipe.Just because a product looks the same doesn't constitute copyright theft.If a product varies in some ways to the patented item then that patent does not apply to simalar product..To get back on subject what Iam annoyed about is the removal of my goods from Ebay when others list there products as DDM style pipes and do not have them removed surely that is more of a breach of copyright by using a companys name to sell your own product.
Click to expand...

Again it doesn't matter if you say it is a DDM or KM pipe the design is too simmilar for there to be any question that it is in fact a counterfit from a stolen design. The picture says it all. The picture looks identical to a DDM pipe which is why Ebay removed it.

Do you really think KM spent any time coming up with an original design on this item? Do you think they spent months testing to get the proper performance from an engine? They simply took a DDM pipe and made it as close as they could to DDM's design. How can you not understand that?

If KM actually spent time and did research on products and made them their own with significant changes this wouldn't be an issue. But of course they can't be bothered to be original as its significantly cheaper to reproduce items. Which is obvious with their pricing.

The fact remains that KM intentionally tries to duplicate original products as much as possible.
 
OK,the argument here is that KM are ripping HPI off....right??? So why would HPI put a rebadged CY engine in their cars,which is a copy of the original Zenoah!
Plus they bought out the Maverick blackout or something which IS a Redcat Rampage with a HPI sticker on it!!!!
Who's cloning who here??? You can do this clone war forever and a day and you will be going around in circles.....there will be NO winners! And ,if you look round your house there will defiantly be a copy of an original item there.
J.
 
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LOST IN MN said:
The problem is it's an exact copy of a tradmark item and it's illegal.

Let me explain it this way:
Say you were in the Baja business and spent months and $1000's designing aftermarket products. Now you put your product up for sale and within months it is being copied and sold at a lower price due to cheaper labor and materials costs. Now lets say these cheap counterfit parts are being sold all over ebay and now you have to spend immense amounts of time contacting ebay to have the items removed. Now not only have you lost sales you have lost time and money to protect what is legally yours.

Now you sit with a huge pile of parts you can't sell. Your mortage isn't getting paid, Your kids are staving, The car gets repossessed. Now I ask you does it not matter anymore?

People have to realize that blatent copying of parts down to the smallest details is illegal in most countries. And generally, selling of exact copies is also illegal.

There was no reason for KM to make items exact copies of other products except to create brand confusion within the market. And to make it near impossible to distinguish counterfit over genuine.

You don't see Toyota making exact copies of Fords now do you?

I guarantee if you were ever in business and this happened to you you would be pissed.

It amazes me that people don't grasp the problem with this and can't understand the long term effects this has on new devolopment. If this is allowed to continue on ebay eventually the people spending all this time and money to bring you new products are going to just say screw it.

Once again KM has done nothing for devolopment of new products all their designs are stolen from other companies.

If you are comfortable buying counterfit items you might as well start printing currency on your home printer because in reality its the same thing!
Its Theft!!!!
Click to expand...

Ok. What TV do you own, what car do you drive, what PC are you viewing LSF on, what printer would you be printing your counterfiet money on??? I bet none of these are made by the original company that invented them. This clone debate is bollocks. Its part of modern life and actually aids development but the HPI crew get so wound up about it then go use their 'clone' Dell computer to complain about it, watch TV on their 'clone' Sony set, get dressed in their 'clone' jeans, drive to work in their 'clone' car, call their mates on their clone mobile etc etc etc.

Take the car; if nobody bothered to copy the original and make it better, we would not have the likes of the Bugatti Veyron today. Are you telling me that the development team at Ford, BMW, Mercedes etc don't go out and buy their rivals cars and strip them down to see what technological developments have been made and where their rivals are better / worse than themselves?

I have said all along that HPI could wipe all the so called clone manufacturers out of the market if they brought out a 'budget' baja and priced it directly at the likes of KM. Yes they might only break even on that model in the short term but they would win long term. It also opens up a new section of the market to them. Currently anyone on a shoestring budget has to buy a clone if they want new. Make good business sense to me......
 
recently been told that HPI is on a hunt, anyone selling anything NOT hpi branded they are pursueing to sue them and take them to court, i just passed that info recently on over to Dan, since hes a KM seller.

and apparently theyre winning the lawsuits or they wouldnt be doing it, just a lil fyi i thot i wood pass along, at this point, im not sure if its true, but from this posting here and a couple other incidents i know of, it appears it may be true.
 
voo2doo said:
OK,the argument here is that KM are ripping HPI off....right??? So why would HPI put a rebadged CY engine in their cars,which is a copy of the original Zenoah!
Plus they bought out the Maverick blackout or something which IS a Redcat Rampage with a HPI sticker on it!!!!
Who's cloning who here??? You can do this clone war forever and a day and you will be going around in circles.....there will be NO winners! And ,if you look round your house there will defiantly be a copy of an original item there.
J.
Click to expand...

Did you read what I wrote? Obviously you didn't as we were discussing KM counterfitting an aftermarket PIPE.

Why would I as a manufacturer waste my time devolping an new product when I know that within months it will be counterfitted?

How can you not understand this?

We are not talking about items which have been around for years and years we are talking about products being counterfitted within months or years of hitting the market.

If i invest $10,000 on molds for tires and 3 weeks after my product hits the market someone is selling cheap knockoffs how can I survive in buisness???? If your the kind of person that doesn't care about this than you are no better than the Thiefs counterfitting the items.

It's not rocket science its outright THEFT.

I choose to support all the little people who have given me a wide array of products not the cheap crap coming out of asia that did nothing but try and make a profit off of others hard work.

Here is a perfect example of what im talking about http://cgi.ebay.com/Rear-Rovan-Knob...Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb4c859ef
These tires are counterfit right down the the H on the tread pattern. These were molded directly off of Hostile racings MXT
 
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i beleive thats the premise for hpi hunting down clone sellers, to sue them for copyright infringements, if hpi has them copyrighted of course. thing is tho, the km's some of them at least are good rc's, i have the 29cc T1000 and right now mines proved to be ten times tuffer and runs over my friends who owns the hpi brand that breaks everytime he runs it.
 
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LOST IN MN said:
Did you read what I wrote? Obviously you didn't as we were discussing KM counterfitting an aftermarket PIPE.

Why would I as a manufacturer waste my time devolping an new product when I know that within months it will be counterfitted?

How can you not understand this?

We are not talking about items which have been around for years and years we are talking about products being counterfitted within months or years of hitting the market.

If i invest $10,000 on molds for tires and 3 weeks after my product hits the market someone is selling cheap knockoffs how can I survive in buisness???? If your the kind of person that doesn't care about this than you are no better than the Thiefs counterfitting the items.

It's not rocket science its outright THEFT.

I choose to support all the little people who have given me a wide array of products not the cheap crap coming out of asia that did nothing but try and make a profit off of others hard work.

Here is a perfect example of what im talking about http://cgi.ebay.com/Rear-Rovan-Knob...Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb4c859ef
These tires are counterfit right down the the H on the tread pattern. These were molded directly off of Hostile racings MXT
Click to expand...

Yes ,I did read what you said and I was on about cloning too!
Your saying I didn't understand you were talking about a pipe?? and then you go on about rip-off tyres?? Do you know what you are talking about?
You said your not talking about parts/items that have been round for years but its OK to copy them though in your eyes.Total hypocrisy there I believe.
If you support the genuine manufacturer's ,you buy their parts but others cannot afford their fee's!

And be VERY VERY careful who you call a thief!!!:mad:
J.
 
The two pipes are similar in looks from a far, but are not the same. They do not perform the same either. I cannot say what amount of changes need to be done to a product before it's copyright is infringing upon - If there is one on this item - But can say KM has changed it enough to make it quite a bit different.

https://www.largescaleforums.com/showthread.php?t=3933&highlight=pipe+review

The DDM V1 pipe can now be bought for under $80.00 sometimes on ebay. Not that anyone asked.:laugh:

If your listing is being removed it because someone is watching your account. The clone pipes can be found in droves everywhere on ebay.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R...nkw=baja+tuned+pipe&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Remember that we are in a clone forum and to argue clone vs DDM is going to go no where except heated arguments.;)

Good luck on your sale.
 
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