Clutch Bell Shaft broken

[pfrederi]

Hello all
I need help. This is the 3d time I've had a clutch bell shaft snap off. This has happened on my buggy and now in my 4WD FG Sportline. Each time it happens I have to end up buying all the parts again be cause I cannot get the pinion gear off the broken shaft and removed from the clutch carrier so I end having to waste all those parts. The gear is attached with 2 grub screws that's a b@#$% to get off. The screws are stripped which makes it more difficult and I cant fit nuch in there but an allen wrench. I have a screw extractor kit but i cant fit a drill in there to try to get it out. I've attached pics.

Anyways if anyone has any advice on how to get this off be much appreciated. I also thought about maybe grinding off the other end of the broken shaft but that steel is hard and I dnt have a powerful enough grinder. The best bet would be if I could get those darn grub screws out and pull the gear off the shaft and pull out the broken shaft o would be able to reuse everything and only need to get a new clutch bell.

Anyways thx in advance

 

[Z.hb71]

Hello all
I need help. This is the 3d time I've had a clutch bell shaft snap off. This has happened on my buggy and now in my 4WD FG Sportline. Each time it happens I have to end up buying all the parts again be cause I cannot get the pinion gear off the broken shaft and removed from the clutch carrier so I end having to waste all those parts. The gear is attached with 2 grub screws that's a b@#$% to get off. I've attached pics.

Anyways if anyone has any advice on how to get this off be much appreciated. I also thought about maybe grinding off the other end of the broken shaft but that steel is hard and I dnt have a powerful enough grinder. The best bet would be if I could get those darn grub screws out and pull the gear off the shaft and pull out the broken shaft o would be able to reuse everything and only need to get a new clutch bell.

Anyways thx in advance

Try heating up the area where the screw is to expand the metal around the gear, that should let you take the screw out.

 

[pfrederi]

Try heating up the area where the screw is to expand the metal around the gear, that should let you take the screw out.

Hey Thanks Z.hb71
Ive tried that but the screws are now stripped as well and theres not much room there for me to work to try to use an extractor drill bit. Dnt know if there any that are skinny enough to fit in there. Even then dnt know if it'll work and at the same time be able to remove the grub screws w/o damaging the threads. eother way im willing to try if anyone has any other advice.

Thanks

 

[Z.hb71]

Hey Thanks Z.hb71
Ive tried that but the screws are now stripped as well and theres not much room there for me to work to try to use an extractor drill bit. Dnt know if there any that are skinny enough to fit in there. Even then dnt know if it'll work and at the same time be able to remove the grub screws w/o damaging the threads. eother way im willing to try if anyone has any other advice.

Thanks

do you have any Torx driver bits? If so Try jamming a torx bit that's a tad bit bigger than the original hex size

 

[cbaker65]

Ouch........That is a tough spot to be in ,May have to order a new set up because once a allen grub strips ,they
are almost impossible to get out ,especially when they are in those tight spots!

Some times ,I am able to use an SAE wrench that is slightly larger ,with heat like Z said!
Some folks live by Loc-tite in those areas ,I don't ,I would rather lose a screw then to have one stuck in those
spots!

 

[Z.hb71]

Some folks live by Loc-tite in those areas ,I don't ,I would rather lose a screw then to have one stuck in those
spots!

I also never do that, grub screws are so easy to strip so no Loctite for me. I also make sure to use a barely used Allen wrench for those tiny screws becuase they are sharper and grip better than a regularly used Allen that could be even slightly rounded off

 

[cbaker65]

That's kind of weird that it be snapping off like that ,it sounds like you need to see what is causing
that issue ,maybe something out of balance!

 

[DougStar]

I'd get a drift and hammer and knock out the shaft ?? then get heat to it ??? then do what Z said

do you have any Torx driver bits? If so Try jamming a torx bit that's a tad bit bigger than the original hex size

Also have you crashed coz either motor mounts bent or bent chassis?? or bent lay shaft?

That's kind of weird that it be snapping off like that ,it sounds like you need to see what is causing
that issue ,maybe something out of balance!

+1??

 

[mark35]

Get a dremel cutting disc or a sharp hacksaw nd cut a slot into the gear/grub screw, you may then be able to undo the screw with a small terminal screwdriver.
Like this one

 

[Billp]

That's kind of weird that it be snapping off like that ,it sounds like you need to see what is causing
that issue ,maybe something out of balance!

I saw this happen on a King Motor clutch bell. The shaft was welded onto the bell with three small welds rather one continuous weld. These snapped under pressure. Balance would have been out as well as they weren't ground down but left as three blobs of weld. The Losi and Vertigo bells appear to be either milled from one bit of steel or if the shaft was welded on, it's continuous and then machined down.

 

[Seandonato73]

I'd go with a vertigo if you can get one for that model.

 

[DougStar]

I'd go with a vertigo if you can get one for that model.

Vertigo is top notch but I don't think they have fg bells.?? there are some nice hardened ones on rc car on.de??

 

[pfrederi]

Ouch........That is a tough spot to be in ,May have to order a new set up because once a allen grub strips ,they
are almost impossible to get out ,especially when they are in those tight spots!

Yeah tell me about it. LOL!!!


Some times ,I am able to use an SAE wrench that is slightly larger ,with heat like Z said!
Some folks live by Loc-tite in those areas ,I don't ,I would rather lose a screw then to have one stuck in those
spots!

Yeah I use Blue loctite only. I didnt realize it would be that tough to get off. This is one of the most highly stressed areas so I use blue loctite. Ive had grub screws come loose before and end up in some not so nice places and cause more damage. For instance one came off and ended up in the fan flywheel and damaged both the flywheel and the coil. So its a toss up. I may try that.

Thanks

Vertigo is top notch but I don't think they have fg bells.?? there are some nice hardened ones on rc car on.de??

Yup. Got one for my buggy and have not had the problem since. Fingers crossed. But i dnt think they make it for the FG. Ill have to double check though. Bought one from DDM (not vertigo) which i think is way overpriced but got it anyway.

That's kind of weird that it be snapping off like that ,it sounds like you need to see what is causing
that issue ,maybe something out of balance!

Yeah thats what i thought at first. But I make sure to line everything up precisely so nothings out of alignment or balance. I just think that in my need for more speed and power maybe the stock parts arent designed (or cheaply designed) to only handle the stock and not much more. Then again i cant say that because the one on my buggie broke with the stock setup. But ive swapped out engines with bigger engines and i think maybe the added power overtime it broke i guess. I drive them hard (top speed WOT) at times but i would think you should be able to do that.

Thx for the input.

I saw this happen on a King Motor clutch bell. The shaft was welded onto the bell with three small welds rather one continuous weld. These snapped under pressure. Balance would have been out as well as they weren't ground down but left as three blobs of weld. The Losi and Vertigo bells appear to be either milled from one bit of steel or if the shaft was welded on, it's continuous and then machined down.

Hey Billp
Yeah if you notice in the pic this one looks to be a continuous weld that goes right around.

Get a dremel cutting disc or a sharp hacksaw nd cut a slot into the gear/grub screw, you may then be able to undo the screw with a small terminal screwdriver.
Like this oneView attachment 52511

I like that idea except i cant fit a dremmel in there safely. And the grub screw is not sticking up its sunk in there so i would be cutting the gear. I know pain the a$$.

 

[pfrederi]

Sooooooooo... Update.

I now have to purchase another engine mount (3rd one) because of the same problem. LOL!!!! SMH.

The screw is stripped again and I cant get it out. I tell you next time im just gonna screw it in with no loctite and uif engone rattles apart it just falls apart. This is ridiculous. Ive tried everything from heating it up etc. The thing is i need to find a waty to get the broken off (4mm) bolt out of the engine mount. All the screw extractors are mainly built for larger screws. If i can get a drill bit made out of something strong enough that will grab a hold of that broken off screw or even drill thru it I would be happy. The extractor kit i have now just basically put a dent in it. Step use the one end to drill out, step use other end to place in drill out area and supposedly grab on and extract. Does not work!!! I need a surefire way to get this thing out. Its in there.

In thinking about maybe going to an automotive place or something see if theyll be friendly enough to humor me and see if they have some thing that can get it out. Any ideas??

Thanks

 

[cbaker65]

Shouldn't that shaft just punch out of the bearing carrier sense the bell broke off if you can grind the lip
of it down?

 

[Polar_Bus]

Its not loctite thats causing your screws to sieze, its rust and corrosion. Looks to me from your pics your components have rust . Do you run your car in a wet enviroment then just park it ? Post a pic of the broken screw and maybe i can help.

 

[Z.hb71]

Sooooooooo... Update.

I now have to purchase another engine mount (3rd one) because of the same problem. LOL!!!! SMH.

The screw is stripped again and I cant get it out. I tell you next time im just gonna screw it in with no loctite and uif engone rattles apart it just falls apart. This is ridiculous. Ive tried everything from heating it up etc. The thing is i need to find a waty to get the broken off (4mm) bolt out of the engine mount. All the screw extractors are mainly built for larger screws. If i can get a drill bit made out of something strong enough that will grab a hold of that broken off screw or even drill thru it I would be happy. The extractor kit i have now just basically put a dent in it. Step use the one end to drill out, step use other end to place in drill out area and supposedly grab on and extract. Does not work!!! I need a surefire way to get this thing out. Its in there.

In thinking about maybe going to an automotive place or something see if theyll be friendly enough to humor me and see if they have some thing that can get it out. Any ideas??

Thanks

Try to jam a torx bit into the screw and unscrew it, for me it works

 

[pfrederi]

Shouldn't that shaft just punch out of the bearing carrier sense the bell broke off if you can grind the lip
of it down?

Hey Thanks cbaker65
Key phrase "... if you can grind the lip of it down? ". LOL. IM not so much concerned with that piece at the moment although i will try to get that out eventually to have an extra clutch carrier that i can use. Basically that lip is hard to isolate to grind it down.

My focus is on the other engine mount for the other side. Ill try to post a pic later. Im at work now. But the screw broke off in there after I drilled off the top of the head. SO I basically have two engine mounts thats useless because they have a screw (4mm) broken off in them. I would like to figure out a way to get those out so I have them on hand if and when needed.

Thanks

Its not loctite thats causing your screws to sieze, its rust and corrosion. Looks to me from your pics your components have rust . Do you run your car in a wet enviroment then just park it ? Post a pic of the broken screw and maybe i can help.

Hey Polar_Bus
No its not rust. I dnt run int thru water. Matter of fact it happened a day or so after i had just bought and mounted the new engine mount back together. I went out to run int and was having some issues and went to check the spark plug and pulled off the coil cap and the coil broke off. So I had to go in a replace the coil because the coil broke off and to do that i have to take the whole engine off.

Ill try and post some pics later. Im at work now but thanks for the input.

Try to jam a torx bit into the screw and unscrew it, for me it works

Thanks Z.hb71. I may try that. I need it to break loose first though. I dnt know if this will work for me to breal it loose but im willing to try. Thx

 

[pfrederi]

Z.hb71 that torx bit worked. SUPRISINGLY !!!!!
I never thought that would work because the torx bit has those thin splines that I thought would just strip right off but surprisingly I was able to drill out a lil bit of the head and jam the torx bit socket in there. I carefully and slowly turned and was able to break it loose and get it out. i think all the other attempts I did helped loosen it some too though. Bottom line its out.

Well i already ordered an extra engine mount so now ill have 3. Ill just use the others as extras to have on hand. Ive attached pics below of the other mount that still has the screw broken off in it but its too skinny to work with. Youll see that ive drilled it out quite a bit but theres nothing to grab on to and theres no torx that skinny thatll fit down in there (4mm). The only reason i was able to get the other one off using the torx was because the head was still on and it had something to grab on to. Any ideas here ill appreciate it. Tx


It would help if the screws themselves were hardened and didnt strip so easy. Does anyone know if theres any harder screws available? Also Does anyone have any ideas on how i might be able to get the other one out???

Also I haven't even started to attempt getting the broken clutch shaft out of the carrier. Ill keep you guys posted on how that goes. I guess ill try the drift and hammer that someone suggested and try knocking that sucker out of there without damaging the clutch carrier.

Thanks

 

[cbaker65]

Z.hb71 that torx bit worked. SUPRISINGLY !!!!!
I never thought that would work because the torx bit has those thin splines that I thought would just strip right off but surprisingly I was able to drill out a lil bit of the head and jam the torx bit socket in there. I carefully and slowly turned and was able to break it loose and get it out. i think all the other attempts I did helped loosen it some too though. Bottom line its out.

Well i already ordered an extra engine mount so now ill have 3. Ill just use the others as extras to have on hand. Ive attached pics below of the other mount that still has the screw broken off in it but its too skinny to work with. Youll see that ive drilled it out quite a bit but theres nothing to grab on to and theres no torx that skinny thatll fit down in there (4mm). The only reason i was able to get the other one off using the torx was because the head was still on and it had something to grab on to. Any ideas here ill appreciate it. Tx


It would help if the screws themselves were hardened and didnt strip so easy. Does anyone know if theres any harder screws available? Also Does anyone have any ideas on how i might be able to get the other one out???

Also I haven't even started to attempt getting the broken clutch shaft out of the carrier. Ill keep you guys posted on how that goes. I guess ill try the drift and hammer that someone suggested and try knocking that sucker out of there without damaging the clutch carrier.

Thanks

I had used torx bits before ,when taped or forced in ,they act like an easy out ,but ,theres always a chance that it wont work ,
an make matters worse!