Electric VESLA with Taylor Layshaft & Blackbone Baja Gears

[Ninth Island RC]

Yes, I am aware that MIke is working on a layshaft specific to the VESLA (not going to say I am the reason...but, I'm willing to bet that I'm one of the people that led him to doing this). Anyway, as we don't know how long this will take, and me wanting to do this now, I started questioning whether, or not, the Taylor RC layshaft & spur carrier (both of which were designed specifically for the gas VESLA), along with the Blackbone Baja gears, could be used in an electric VESLA. A lot of people said this couldn't be done. They said it isn't possible. In contacting Taylor RC, I was told it won't work. I even had one individual (who I'll refrain from naming) tell me there's no way it will ever work. Only one person, Brian Bailey (on FB), believed in the possibility. So, between countless back & forth messages, we attempted to determine IF it was a realistic possibility...and, if so, how realistic of a possibility was it. He has a gas VESLA (which he's since converted to electric, but is still running some of the gas-specific parts), as well as the Taylor & Blackbone parts in question. We each took several measurements...him measuring the stock gas & Taylor RC parts, and me measuring the electric parts...and, it was determined that there WAS a realistic possibility that it SHOULD work (not saying it 'would', only that it 'should').

At that point, I decided to take a chance, and ordered the necessary parts - the Taylor RC layshaft & spur carrier, as well as a Blackbone Baja Spur & Pinion set (obviously, the included pinion wouldn't used...just haven't yet decided what to do with it). Not that it matters for the purpose of this post, but, for the Blackbone gear set, I opted to go with the 56T/19T combo (there are other combos available, from a 57T/18T, up to a 53T/22T). Anyway, as you'll be able to tell from the photos, below, this idea that I had...this idea that several naysayers said wasn't possible...Brian & I have proven IS possible. Not only that, but, NO modifications to ANY of the Taylor or Blackbone parts were needed. The only mod needing to be done was to the Kraken gear cover (which I'm still devising, as it needs to be extended by at least 4mm where the layshaft hits the cover). Additionally , a spacer of the proper length (in this case, "proper length" means it needs to stick past the end of the layshaft by a minimal amount...say, at least 0.5mm, although 1mm is better) needs to be added between the spur carrier, and the bolt at the outside end of the layshaft. This is to "lock" the carrier & spur into position, preventing the carrier from sliding away from the transmission.

As you can see, the slipper HAS been successfully removed from the equation on an electric VESLA, and it IS possibly to use the Taylor RC layshaft & spur carrier in an electric VESLA. I am not trying to put the naysayers down (I just wanted them to know if can be done)...but, to all those who said "it's not possible", to quote one of my favorite movie lines, "You have been weighed; you have been measured; and you have been found wanting.” So, for those interested in going this route, but not wanting to wait until Mike releases the electric version of the latshaft, the spacer mention should be no shorter than 21.5mm, and preferably no longer than 25mm (to make certain that enough of the bolt threads are seated deep enough into the end of the layshaft). For mine, I cut the spacer to 22mm, which (as you might be able to tell from the 3rd photo) placed of approx 1mm beyond the end of the layshaft.

 

[cmbscx10]

Nicely researched, keeping your head about you pushing forward and awesome outcome. With my 100% negative experience on my Blackbone conversion on my gasser i will wait for Mike to engineer a specific electric layshaft.

Only note i would suggest is to emphasis the tranny you are using and it's setup. I doubt there is a different between the Kraken and Taylor dimensions but for someone smarter than i might say there is.

For the Gear cover i would just blow hole for the layshaft to stick through. Most Vesla vids i have watched don't even run them.

Again, nice work.

 

[Ninth Island RC]

Nicely researched, keeping your head about you pushing forward and awesome outcome. With my 100% negative experience on my Blackbone conversion on my gasser i will wait for Mike to engineer a specific electric layshaft.

Only note i would suggest is to emphasis the tranny you are using and it's setup. I doubt there is a different between the Kraken and Taylor dimensions but for someone smarter than i might say there is.

For the Gear cover i would just blow hole for the layshaft to stick through. Most Vesla vids i have watched don't even run them.

Again, nice work.

First, thank you. I first tried getting measurement info from others on this forum (obviously, in another thread), but that didn't work out as I had hoped. Thankfully, Brian and I seemed to be "on the same wavelength", each understanding what data the other was looking for, and everything fell into place fairly quick. Regarding the trans, I'm running the machined case from Kraken, and the hardened Kraken gears, with the exception of the Taylor HD idler gear. As for the electric Taylor layshaft, I have a strong feeling it will just be a shortened version of the gas layshaft, as the only "problem" is its length (thus the reason for needing a 'hole' in the gear cover. And, finally, to the gear cover, I have an idea, which is why I'll be taking a trip down to Lowe's tomorrow. Since I won't exactly be running on grass (other than public parks, I don't think we have any real grass here in Las Vegas), I don't want to leave the spur & pinion uncovered...the desert can be quite harsh on vehicles, whether full-size, or RC.

 

[cmbscx10]

"As for the electric Taylor layshaft, I have a strong feeling it will just be a shortened version of the gas layshaft, as the only "problem" is its length (thus the reason for needing a 'hole' in the gear cover."
Seeing your results i can agree. I can also agree to Mike's statement of it not working. The Gas Layshaft in a bolt on situation won't work for the two reasons you found out. Even if there were instructions for the customer to make a custom length spacers as you did how many would actually do that? I would say not many. Plus if anything went catastrophically wrong Taylor RC would receive 100% of the blame and that is just not good business IMO.

Then there is Gear cover issue due to the length. For a customer to be responsible to custom make something for XYZ to work is again not a very good business model. One could say why not just cut 22mm off the layshaft to the electric length and tap a new thread for the bolt. What kinda customer has that ability? Probably very few. I for one have the ability but at the price of a Blackbone Spur / Pinion i will wait for Taylor to make a specific one.

Again, nice work as i learned a lot.

 

[Ninth Island RC]

"As for the electric Taylor layshaft, I have a strong feeling it will just be a shortened version of the gas layshaft, as the only "problem" is its length (thus the reason for needing a 'hole' in the gear cover."
Seeing your results i can agree. I can also agree to Mike's statement of it not working. The Gas Layshaft in a bolt on situation won't work for the two reasons you found out. Even if there were instructions for the customer to make a custom length spacers as you did how many would actually do that? I would say not many. Plus if anything went catastrophically wrong Taylor RC would receive 100% of the blame and that is just not good business IMO.

Then there is Gear cover issue due to the length. For a customer to be responsible to custom make something for XYZ to work is again not a very good business model. One could say why not just cut 22mm off the layshaft to the electric length and tap a new thread for the bolt. What kinda customer has that ability? Probably very few. I for one have the ability but at the price of a Blackbone Spur / Pinion i will wait for Taylor to make a specific one.

Again, nice work as i learned a lot.

I never said it wouldn't work, nor did I say it's not working. I think you completely misread/misunderstood everything I said. Other people are the ones who said it won't fit, which is why they said it wouldn't work...but, Brian & I proved that it DOES fit, and that it DOES work. There is NOTHING wrong with it, or with going about it as I did. Also, I was NOT (as you seem to think I said) suggesting anyone take the current Taylor layshaft, and cut it down. I never said, nor insinuated, such a thing (see third paragraph).

And, as for the gear cover, that, too, is a very minor matter. I could have gone the 'easy' route, and just drilled/cut a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the bolt (say, 20-22mm in diameter...maybe 24mm), and then topped it with a rubber piece similar to how several manufacturers have done with their 1/10 & 1/8 race buggies. If it works for them, there's absolutely no reason why it wouldn't work on a 1/5 RC.

Getting to the layshaft that Mike is working on (at least, from what I understand, he is working on an electric version, quite possibly because of the number of people interested in using his carrier, and the Blackbone Baja gears), what I was saying is that, in all likelihood, what Mike is probably doing is taking the current design (ie. the gas layshaft), and shortening it so that, with the bolt attached to the end, it won't hit the gear cover. The 22mm I mentioned had nothing (again, as you appear to be thinking I said) to do with the length that needs to be removed...it is simply the length of my spacer, as a spacer IS needed, whether using it in an electric, or gas, vehicle (the layshaft includes a spacer of the proper length when used in a gas vehicle). As the bolt extends approx 4-5mm past the inside of the gear cover, I would guess that Mike is probably shortening the layshaft length by 6-8mm. That would allow a space of 1-3mm between the end of the bolt, and the inside of the gear cover. Truth-be-told, I'd guess he is probably also testing different lengths, to see what works best. Whatever the shortened length ends up being (ie. the difference in length between the gas & electric layshafts), a spacer will still be needed, and it would (probably) be shorter then my 22mm spacer by the same amount. For example, if the electric version of the layshaft ends up being 8mm shorter than the gas layshaft, then the spacer would need to be 14mm...but, that spacer WILL still be needed.

Hopefully, you now have a better understanding of what I said in my initial post. With, or without, the modified gear cover, I plan to take it out tomorrow for a very quick test, partly to verify everything is operational, but mostly to properly set the steering sub-trim.

 

[cmbscx10]

I don't think you and i would ever be on the same page so i will just say thank you for your efforts and outcome as it will help the RC community.

 

[Ninth Island RC]

I don't think you and i would ever be on the same page so i will just say thank you for your efforts and outcome as it will help the RC community.

You're acting like I was "putting you down", which, honestly, I wasn't (and, if you read what I last said, you will see that)...plus, it has nothing to do with "being on the same page". Any two people can be of opposing beliefs, and that's perfectly ok...but, in responding to each other, what matters is that each is actually paying attention to what the other is saying. If a person is talking about 'oranges', the other person shouldn't be responding back about 'steaks', or even 'bananas'...they should be responding about 'oranges' It simply has to do with reading/understanding what the other person wrote...and, if replying, replying with a comment based on what the other person actually said.

As for your "thank you", you, and others, are most welcome. All I'm trying to do is help others when/where I can. Likewise, I gladly accept help from others. Also, a person doesn't have to be extremely knowledgeable on a subject to help others. Yes, it's often the "old timers" who are passing along most of the knowledge to the "newcomers"...but, there are also times when a "newcomer" discovers a new/better way of doing something and/or realizes something that the "old timers" have overlooked (it should also be said that, sometimes, they've accidentally overlooked something, but, at other times, they are purposely 'overlooking' something, purely because they are "stuck in their ways"). That's when everyone (ok, maybe not 'everyone', but at least a decent majority who are open-minded enough) realizes that it is possible to "teach an old dog new tricks". Truthfully, it IS possible for everyone to "get along"...but, in order for that to actually be accomplished, that requires all individuals involved to be open-minded enough to accept different points-of-view, to pay attention to what others are doing/saying, and to actually work towards a common goal (as opposed to working against each other).

Whatever the case many be, I wish you the best in everything RC that you do...and, hopefully, we can both continue not only enjoying all that RC has to offer, but can also continue helping (or, at least, trying to help) others.

 

[cmbscx10]

This is the part i am trying to wrap my head around. Don't get all cocky with a Mine is longer than yours comment

Your Taylor Vesla Blackbone Gear Layshaft length protruding from the Spur Gear.
https://www.detroitperformancerc.com/product-page/taylor-vesla-blackbone-gear-layshaft



My Kraken Vesla Blackbone Gearing Conversion Kit Layshaft

** I can't take pictures or do measurements as i returned the whole Kraken Vesla Blackbone Gearing Conversion Kit.





A few i found on YT and Google

 

[Ninth Island RC]

This is the part i am trying to wrap my head around. Don't get all cocky with a Mine is longer than yours comment

Your Taylor Vesla Blackbone Gear Layshaft length protruding from the Spur Gear.
https://www.detroitperformancerc.com/product-page/taylor-vesla-blackbone-gear-layshaft



My Kraken Vesla Blackbone Gearing Conversion Kit Layshaft

Between the two of us, I'm not the one getting "cocky". As for yours, it looks like you cut it. That's ok to. There's IS more than one way to do what was done. As for the layshaft protruding past the spur carrier, that is ALSO ok. That's what the spacer is for. You seem to be forgetting that Taylor RC also includes a spacer with the late shaft, although that's spacer is specific to using it in a gas VESLA.

Now, it would probably please everyone if you got off your "high horse", as all your latest post looks like is that you're attempting to prove that "yours is better than mine".

 

[cmbscx10]

I'm not going to get into it with you as you don't read between the lines very well but a few things

1. For anyone reading this. I did not, i repeat I DID NOT cut my My Kraken Vesla Blackbone Gearing Conversion Kit Layshaft.
2. In my Kraken Vesla Blackbone Gearing Conversion Kit i did not receive whatever spacer you are mentioning.
3. You don't have to explain yourself but your layshaft length is different than the 3 example's i gave. I am just curious as to why.

I hope your test run goes well but I'm out.

 

[Kratonwatch]

Got me some popcorn and recliner for this thread

 

[Ninth Island RC]

Got me some popcorn and recliner for this thread

It ended for me after his post Monday morning...I put the 'problem' on "ignore".