engine question

buzzkill

Well-Known Member
Messages
401
Location
SLO California
i get what ya mean about the top ends z,zed,zee :LOL:,
but need an engine to get me started if ya get what i mean, can upgrade to rcmax at a later date when funds allow,
and yeh the nikasil flaking etc, but even zenoah had nikasil issues at one point,
sooooo, probably get a stock one and strip, port match and make any other mods thats needed etc, then see how it goes,
engine and pipe needed to build around and make sure everythings gonna fit in there,
cash saved on the engine will be used for parts for the build, just ordered a really good quality set of 10mm tube benders,
then will get the engine/pipe ordered and then get some driveline parts ordered etc etc (y)
Hell Honda had nikasil problems way back when LOL
 

buzzkill

Well-Known Member
Messages
401
Location
SLO California
just looked it up sean, 0.05mm or 0.002'', so very thin then :LOL:
its kind of like anodizing in a way

Nikasil is short for Nickel Silicon Carbide. Silicon carbide is a very hard ceramic (much harder than steel) that can be dissolved in nickel. The nickel solution can then be electroplated onto the aluminium cylinder bore. The piston rings will then rub off the exposed nickel, leaving a very hard layer of silicon carbide to prevent the cast iron/steel piston rings directly contacting the aluminium cylinder. With this setup, the engine tolerances can be much tighter for better performance. The cylinder must be re-plated after it is re-bored, but Nikasil is extremely durable, so the cylinder does not need to be reworked as often as an iron or chrome cylinder.
 

spents

Well-Known Member
Messages
59
Location
oop north
its kind of like anodizing in a way

Nikasil is short for Nickel Silicon Carbide. Silicon carbide is a very hard ceramic (much harder than steel) that can be dissolved in nickel. The nickel solution can then be electroplated onto the aluminium cylinder bore. The piston rings will then rub off the exposed nickel, leaving a very hard layer of silicon carbide to prevent the cast iron/steel piston rings directly contacting the aluminium cylinder. With this setup, the engine tolerances can be much tighter for better performance. The cylinder must be re-plated after it is re-bored, but Nikasil is extremely durable, so the cylinder does not need to be reworked as often as an iron or chrome cylinder.

yeh nikasil can not be bored cos its so thin, but can be very very lightly honed to bust any glaze in the bore,
just looked up prices over here in the uk to replate a cylinder,
£160 mark or 211 us dollars per cylinder, probably cheaper if you get multiple cylinders nikasil plated hence why a new rc size top end kit comes in much cheaper than the prices above,
 

buzzkill

Well-Known Member
Messages
401
Location
SLO California
yeh nikasil can not be bored cos its so thin, but can be very very lightly honed to bust any glaze in the bore,
just looked up prices over here in the uk to replate a cylinder,
£160 mark or 211 us dollars per cylinder, probably cheaper if you get multiple cylinders nikasil plated hence why a new rc size top end kit comes in much cheaper than the prices above,
Yep , Ive had dirt bike motors go thru the plating , WAY cheaper to just buy a new cyl.
 

spents

Well-Known Member
Messages
59
Location
oop north
Could have had them chromed cheaper then nikasil.
yeh but would need to be hard chrome plated sean, and nikasil is harder wearing and holds oil better,
saying that there are so many variations of plating for bores its daft,
there are variations of nikasil that includes chrome if i read all the info correctly,
when all said and done, nikasil for the win in abused engines :LOL:
 

Seandonato73

King 🤴 Womble
PLUS member
Build Thread Contributor
Messages
8,007
I wonder if someone like Darton would make a sleeve that small?
LA sleeve would make any sleeve to whatever spec you wanted. The machine shop did a few vintage jugs that the chrome had peeled off in spots. Ended up boring it out, had sleeves made up and putting them in. Was a tedious task to get the ports matched up. But it worked out in the end. Lots of hand work involved. I cant see how it would be worth it for our application.
yeh but would need to be hard chrome plated sean, and nikasil is harder wearing and holds oil better,
saying that there are so many variations of plating for bores its daft,
there are variations of nikasil that includes chrome if i read all the info correctly,
when all said and done, nikasil for the win in abused engines :LOL:
Cheers mate, for sure!
 

buzzkill

Well-Known Member
Messages
401
Location
SLO California
LA sleeve would make any sleeve to whatever spec you wanted. The machine shop did a few vintage jugs that the chrome had peeled off in spots. Ended up boring it out, had sleeves made up and putting them in. Was a tedious task to get the ports matched up. But it worked out in the end. Lots of hand work involved. I cant see how it would be worth it for our application.

Cheers mate, for sure!
The head/cyl are soo cheap why bother ???
 

Seandonato73

King 🤴 Womble
PLUS member
Build Thread Contributor
Messages
8,007
The head/cyl are soo cheap why bother ???
Read the last sentence of the post you quoted ......... what I was referring to was from locust valley restoration, they bought, refurbished, and (sometimes) sold vintage, and antique motorcycles. Something like 80% of what they were restoring parts were NLA. So they ended up getting us to make or recondition a lot of parts for them. We got into that kind of work from time to time. Most interesting engine we did was a 1904 Knox air cooled 4 cylinder. The cylinders were lined with 1/4 20 bolts for cooling fins. Thing was very, very cool. Anyway, stuff like that it's worth it.
 

buzzkill

Well-Known Member
Messages
401
Location
SLO California
Read the last sentence of the post you quoted ......... what I was referring to was from locust valley restoration, they bought, refurbished, and (sometimes) sold vintage, and antique motorcycles. Something like 80% of what they were restoring parts were NLA. So they ended up getting us to make or recondition a lot of parts for them. We got into that kind of work from time to time. Most interesting engine we did was a 1904 Knox air cooled 4 cylinder. The cylinders were lined with 1/4 20 bolts for cooling fins. Thing was very, very cool. Anyway, stuff like that it's worth it.
Yep totally missed that part ! my bad
 

TODD

Well-Known Member
Messages
173
When we used to bore cylinder for people. We would ask if they were keeping it? If they took care of stuff we told them to put a liner in it. If they were selling it? Than we would just tell them to buy another cylinder. Sleeving it would depend on what was available for oversizes. Sometimes there was 8 after the stock bore. There was a few times i looked it up and was like one or 2 sizes only. Than it was not really wort it to do.
 
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