- Messages
- 7,733
- Location
- Minnesota
When I replaced my top end on the firehammer due to a snapped off bolt in the exhaust hole, I got the OB 27cc top end and piston followed there recommendations and all is well.
My engine Issiue
- Thread starter Gus
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
- Thread starter
- #42
okie, sounds good!
btw the package is alrdy in malmö, a town 30km from me
so it looks like ill be running it in This weekend!!!!
happy happy joy joy
wish me luck, ill probaby need it. hehe
get back to you all when i have more info
btw the package is alrdy in malmö, a town 30km from me
so it looks like ill be running it in This weekend!!!!
happy happy joy joy
wish me luck, ill probaby need it. hehe
get back to you all when i have more info
- Thread starter
- #43
yay i actually did it! i managed to mount the motor all by myself, not bad if i might say because i had to remove my old cluchhousing, the new one with the OB motor didnt fit - the motor mount was in the way.
anyways with finally swapped it was easy, a lill grinding in the jetpro pipe mount hole was needed to fit also but was np.
I better do some of the chores around here now, and maybe i can (if my wife lets me ) start it up tonight
oh yeah, ill post a few pics of it, nothing fancy tho.
all is stock xept the motor/pipe . and the body was my first ever i painted so don't diss it to much now
enjoy.
i managed to mount the motor all by myself, not bad if i might say because i had to remove my old cluchhousing, the new one with the OB motor didnt fit - the motor mount was in the way.anyways with finally swapped it was easy, a lill grinding in the jetpro pipe mount hole was needed to fit also but was np.
I better do some of the chores around here now, and maybe i can (if my wife lets me ) start it up tonight
oh yeah, ill post a few pics of it, nothing fancy tho.
all is stock xept the motor/pipe . and the body was my first ever i painted so don't diss it to much now
enjoy.
Attachments
SELWA
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,072
- Location
- Milton,On CANADA
Great job!! You're gonna love the engine and pipe combo.
- Messages
- 7,733
- Location
- Minnesota
Love the comparison to the real thing! Nice job, looks as though you will be tearing up things now.
Not sure if anyone has given you a tip on getting the rear dif gear and the spur meshed? You can use a standard business card between the gears then tighten up the motor mounts, that will give you the perfect mesh.
Don't need to say it but, HAVE FUN!
Not sure if anyone has given you a tip on getting the rear dif gear and the spur meshed? You can use a standard business card between the gears then tighten up the motor mounts, that will give you the perfect mesh.
Don't need to say it but, HAVE FUN!
- Thread starter
- #48
ok, now ive gotten a good 30mins notcounting the cooldown stops through the engine ive been driving it VERY calm the HS is at 1.9 out and low is at 1.75 out. the plugg is still quite white, i would imagine it to be almost black with this setting.
i have no idear what to do if i should turn the needles any or continue the breakin with these settings. nice and calm?
any tips and ideas is much apricciated
thnx / Gus
i have no idear what to do if i should turn the needles any or continue the breakin with these settings. nice and calm?
any tips and ideas is much apricciated
thnx / Gus
- Messages
- 7,733
- Location
- Minnesota
My opinion, and what I would do to start, would be to reset it back to 1.5H and 1.25L you can't go wrong with those settings and you would rather lean it out later.
Ignore my last post I misread yours, that will do nothing for your lean problem.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 7,733
- Location
- Minnesota
What type and how much oil are you using? What ever type you are using it should be at 25:1 for breek in.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #52
Hello guys, now i think i have the motor broken in! i just need to tune it abit better but im getting help with that this week
one thing though - theres no idle ( i have to set it on the radio ) and when i brake full it cuts the engine, the probem is the idle screw isnt in contact with that thingie that should set the idle, even if i dial it full In, any tips?
thxn again for all help and that you all bare with a newbie ilke me
/ Gus
one thing though - theres no idle ( i have to set it on the radio ) and when i brake full it cuts the engine, the probem is the idle screw isnt in contact with that thingie that should set the idle, even if i dial it full In, any tips?
thxn again for all help and that you all bare with a newbie ilke me
/ Gus
you may have your Low Needle set to Lean. the leaner the low needle the higher the idle speed will be regardless of the idle screw. richen up the low end needle so the idle drops and almost stalls the motor, THEN adjust the idle screw to bring the idle back up to a good point.
if your idle screw isnt doing anything at all, you have 2 possible issues. to lean on the low needle, or an airleak. Either one will Squeek your engine in a few seconds if left unchecked. make sure your low needle is set around 1 to 1 1/4 out if the motor is fully stock, and you Should be able to use the idle screw to adjust. if you cant you still have an issue somewhere. i d start looking for an air leak.
FWIW, i have the DDM Race Ported 28.5 with the TGN Tuned Pipe on my Baja, needles are 1.25 or just a bit more on L and im at 2 out on the H. with the Xcan i was just about 1 1/8 on l and 1 1/2 on h. this was a tad rich setting with the xcan.
with the stock gutted exhaust i was about the same, but with the stock ungutted exhaust on, i t was 1 out on L and 1 1/4 on H.
hth
T
if your idle screw isnt doing anything at all, you have 2 possible issues. to lean on the low needle, or an airleak. Either one will Squeek your engine in a few seconds if left unchecked. make sure your low needle is set around 1 to 1 1/4 out if the motor is fully stock, and you Should be able to use the idle screw to adjust. if you cant you still have an issue somewhere. i d start looking for an air leak.
FWIW, i have the DDM Race Ported 28.5 with the TGN Tuned Pipe on my Baja, needles are 1.25 or just a bit more on L and im at 2 out on the H. with the Xcan i was just about 1 1/8 on l and 1 1/2 on h. this was a tad rich setting with the xcan.
with the stock gutted exhaust i was about the same, but with the stock ungutted exhaust on, i t was 1 out on L and 1 1/4 on H.
hth
T
Last edited:
- Messages
- 7,733
- Location
- Minnesota
Here is a good write up from who I hear is a smart, reputable engine modifier on needle carb settings. Its a bit long and detailed but, I am trying it out as well.
I would mix at 25 or 28:1 for the gas (I always run 28:1). Buy a Zenoah owners manual. CY does not come with a manual but the Zenoah manual has a lot of good cross over info.
Set the screws per the carb tuning instructions for a rich setting to start, and have a new spark plug or two on hand in case you foul a plug. I would rather foul a plug, than squeak a motor before it is tuned.
Start the engine with the car on a stand with the wheels off the ground and run it for about 5 min, revving it up, but not holding it anywhere for long. After that is done, pull the plug and see if it is getting dark. If it is (and it should be)-- good. let it cool, start it again and run it (driving the car) half throttle for about 10 sec or so (after it is all warmed up again). From half throttle, stop the car at your feet and hit the kill switch. Try to not let it idle or run at a different RPM--stop the engine as quick as you can for these tests or the plug can give you a false reading. If the plug is still dark, you’re safe to run another test at a little higher RPM. Keep checking the plug between RPM runs as you increase RPM for each run. As long as the plug is still dark, you should be safe. When you get to full throttle and about 10 sec at full throttle, and the plug is still dark, you can lean out the high speed jet 1/8th of a turn at a time and keep doing full throttle runs till the plug is a med brown in color. You may be able to go leaner than that, but a med color is safe, and won't foul easily. Your exhaust gases are now hot enough and the plug retains enough of that heat to burn off deposits so it won't foul a plug easily. A white or light color plug indicates that the exhaust gasses are dangerously high in temp, as the plug retains enough heat and burns off almost all of the deposit (which is why the plug is white in color). If your plug does not gain color with the high out 1.75 or 2 turns out, you have some other problem like bad fuel delivery, or a air leak that must be fixed before you run more, or it might happen again. By the time you get the carb tuned with this method--it is broke in and ready to beat. Break in, IMO, is not as critical as most people think. The Zen owner’s manual does not include a break in procedure, and since it has a lot of other good info, I feel Zen does not figure it is important either. I highly doubt the Japanese company simply forgot to put it in there, and the manual has been updated, still with no break in procedure.
On the stand at first, I start with the low at 1.5 out. If you turn it in, the RPM will go up, and the engine might start buzzing (vibrating noticeably). Set the jet richer than that setting by about 1/4 turn, and leave it there until you get the high speed jet tuned in real conditions. Then you can fiddle with the low speed for better low speed acceleration--but it might be hard to notice because of the clutch engaging at about the RPM where a piped engine comes on the power anyway. On peds, that have no clutch and direct drive (the ped stalls when you stop), we often actually go a bit richer on the low. It seems to help get the engine get up to 8,000 RPM better (where the power usually starts coming on with a pipe).
The high-speed jet is by far more critical to prevent engine failure than the low speed jet---even though both jets flow fuel after about 1/3rd throttle. Adjusting one jet does affect the other a bit because they both flow fuel after about 1/3rd throttle--so keep that in mind. Every engine I have lean seized while learning, and seen other that have seized always happened at full throttle--or close--and never on a stand with no load.
I know other people may think I am too anal about jetting the carb, but I feel this is the safest way, especially if you’re new to the engine. HPI and some others just do all the tuning on the stand. They hold it wide open and lean the HS jet till they get top RPM, then they richen the needle after that and run. I know a hot engine (oh yea--always tune at operating temps) and a engine under load needs more fuel, so I am not sure if I would totally trust the on the stand method of tuning the engine. I would rather use real conditions, and use plug checks. Plus, I really don't want to hold a engine wide open with no load. It will be interesting to see if my end settings match the setting of the stand method though. That is something I will check out this summer. But all other gas two stroke engine for bikes, quads etc--use the spark plug method. I think the other methods are some nitro mentality coming into effect--but I am not sure.
Use good foam air filter oil on a foam air filter (can buy the special tacky oil at any dirt bike shop). A special tacky foam filter oil (like Bel-Ray or PJ1 foam filter oil) is tacky so gravity and airflow forces won't let the oil settle to the bottom of the filter, or get sucked into the engine--leaving the filter unprotected in areas. Fully saturate a clean foam filter with the oil, and squeeze out the excess with paper towels. The foam is a "open cell" type of foam that breaths. You don't want to fill the cells with oil and leave it there, you just need to coat the walls of the cells with oil for best air flow, and great dirt protection (water will let dirt pass through a foam air filter though--so try to stay out of the water). Make sure the filter is on correctly (for Baja owners, the Baja is a bit tricky--but the stock filter is probably the best one out there IMO.)
Hope this helps!
I would mix at 25 or 28:1 for the gas (I always run 28:1). Buy a Zenoah owners manual. CY does not come with a manual but the Zenoah manual has a lot of good cross over info.
Set the screws per the carb tuning instructions for a rich setting to start, and have a new spark plug or two on hand in case you foul a plug. I would rather foul a plug, than squeak a motor before it is tuned.
Start the engine with the car on a stand with the wheels off the ground and run it for about 5 min, revving it up, but not holding it anywhere for long. After that is done, pull the plug and see if it is getting dark. If it is (and it should be)-- good. let it cool, start it again and run it (driving the car) half throttle for about 10 sec or so (after it is all warmed up again). From half throttle, stop the car at your feet and hit the kill switch. Try to not let it idle or run at a different RPM--stop the engine as quick as you can for these tests or the plug can give you a false reading. If the plug is still dark, you’re safe to run another test at a little higher RPM. Keep checking the plug between RPM runs as you increase RPM for each run. As long as the plug is still dark, you should be safe. When you get to full throttle and about 10 sec at full throttle, and the plug is still dark, you can lean out the high speed jet 1/8th of a turn at a time and keep doing full throttle runs till the plug is a med brown in color. You may be able to go leaner than that, but a med color is safe, and won't foul easily. Your exhaust gases are now hot enough and the plug retains enough of that heat to burn off deposits so it won't foul a plug easily. A white or light color plug indicates that the exhaust gasses are dangerously high in temp, as the plug retains enough heat and burns off almost all of the deposit (which is why the plug is white in color). If your plug does not gain color with the high out 1.75 or 2 turns out, you have some other problem like bad fuel delivery, or a air leak that must be fixed before you run more, or it might happen again. By the time you get the carb tuned with this method--it is broke in and ready to beat. Break in, IMO, is not as critical as most people think. The Zen owner’s manual does not include a break in procedure, and since it has a lot of other good info, I feel Zen does not figure it is important either. I highly doubt the Japanese company simply forgot to put it in there, and the manual has been updated, still with no break in procedure.
On the stand at first, I start with the low at 1.5 out. If you turn it in, the RPM will go up, and the engine might start buzzing (vibrating noticeably). Set the jet richer than that setting by about 1/4 turn, and leave it there until you get the high speed jet tuned in real conditions. Then you can fiddle with the low speed for better low speed acceleration--but it might be hard to notice because of the clutch engaging at about the RPM where a piped engine comes on the power anyway. On peds, that have no clutch and direct drive (the ped stalls when you stop), we often actually go a bit richer on the low. It seems to help get the engine get up to 8,000 RPM better (where the power usually starts coming on with a pipe).
The high-speed jet is by far more critical to prevent engine failure than the low speed jet---even though both jets flow fuel after about 1/3rd throttle. Adjusting one jet does affect the other a bit because they both flow fuel after about 1/3rd throttle--so keep that in mind. Every engine I have lean seized while learning, and seen other that have seized always happened at full throttle--or close--and never on a stand with no load.
I know other people may think I am too anal about jetting the carb, but I feel this is the safest way, especially if you’re new to the engine. HPI and some others just do all the tuning on the stand. They hold it wide open and lean the HS jet till they get top RPM, then they richen the needle after that and run. I know a hot engine (oh yea--always tune at operating temps) and a engine under load needs more fuel, so I am not sure if I would totally trust the on the stand method of tuning the engine. I would rather use real conditions, and use plug checks. Plus, I really don't want to hold a engine wide open with no load. It will be interesting to see if my end settings match the setting of the stand method though. That is something I will check out this summer. But all other gas two stroke engine for bikes, quads etc--use the spark plug method. I think the other methods are some nitro mentality coming into effect--but I am not sure.
Use good foam air filter oil on a foam air filter (can buy the special tacky oil at any dirt bike shop). A special tacky foam filter oil (like Bel-Ray or PJ1 foam filter oil) is tacky so gravity and airflow forces won't let the oil settle to the bottom of the filter, or get sucked into the engine--leaving the filter unprotected in areas. Fully saturate a clean foam filter with the oil, and squeeze out the excess with paper towels. The foam is a "open cell" type of foam that breaths. You don't want to fill the cells with oil and leave it there, you just need to coat the walls of the cells with oil for best air flow, and great dirt protection (water will let dirt pass through a foam air filter though--so try to stay out of the water). Make sure the filter is on correctly (for Baja owners, the Baja is a bit tricky--but the stock filter is probably the best one out there IMO.)
Hope this helps!
- Thread starter
- #55
thats from Earth Surfer huh?
mt engine isnt stock its a OB 30,5cc raceported with a stuffed crank (a CY motor) and a jetpro pipe.
my current settings is 2out on the HS and 1.5 out on the LS i used these settings to run the motor and i thougth i was on the "ritch" side but the plugg seems kinda light in the color anyways?
the mix is 95octane with 4% 2stroke oil in it.
i havnt been able to get help from my friends around here, they all work alot, and i work night shifts so i usually sleep late on the days.
im just so worried that ill seize this engine too, like i did with the stock one :S
mt engine isnt stock its a OB 30,5cc raceported with a stuffed crank (a CY motor) and a jetpro pipe.
my current settings is 2out on the HS and 1.5 out on the LS i used these settings to run the motor and i thougth i was on the "ritch" side but the plugg seems kinda light in the color anyways?
the mix is 95octane with 4% 2stroke oil in it.
i havnt been able to get help from my friends around here, they all work alot, and i work night shifts so i usually sleep late on the days.
im just so worried that ill seize this engine too, like i did with the stock one :S
- Messages
- 7,733
- Location
- Minnesota
thats from Earth Surfer huh?
Yup.
I think you should be ok with 2 & 1.5. If its a little light sounds like that is where it is maxed for performance and safe heat.
Your oil mix is where I run mine at 25:1, With that mix I always get some smoke but, I feel like you want to feel comfortable with not seizing it. Would be nice to have someone like ES around to teach us huh.
Have fun......
- Thread starter
- #58
no airleaks and losta smoke frome the pipe.
i asked at OB about the settings too, they said that my needles is a bit rich but if the motor runs good that i should continue the breakin for 2full tanks to go thru the motor.
so i guess ill give it another go tomorrow
i asked at OB about the settings too, they said that my needles is a bit rich but if the motor runs good that i should continue the breakin for 2full tanks to go thru the motor.
so i guess ill give it another go tomorrow
- Messages
- 7,733
- Location
- Minnesota
Good news..... :scooter: ..... Have fun breaking it in. These motors seem to really come alive after they break in a bit.