Going to experiment with VP premixed fuel

Polar_Bus

Well-Known Member
Messages
411
Location
New Hampshire USA
So this fall i've had my carbs crap out on both my old 1980's chainsaw , and my 5 y/o leaf blower. I know well and good its completely due to Ethanol contamination. Ive been doing much research and seems as the expert commercial landscapers and loggers swear by running quality Ethanol free premixed fuels such as VP or TruFuel. Seems to me that running a oil bath 28:1 mix as suggested by the 1/5 scale mfgs is way overkill and limits performance. My new Husqvarna chainsaw suggests 50:1 and im reading that this leaner ratio is 100% reliable. Chainsaw engines take an equal beating if not harder than a 1/5 scale. I think for the sake of my curiosity and the sake of argument im going to try some VP 40:1 premix fuel. I can buy it for $22 / gallon. Im so sick and tired of dicking around trying to keep pump fuel stabilized on all my small engines that don't get run frequently. Even if i blow up my Rovan, its no big deal. Not like its a High end race engine ! Ill be sure and update this thread as i work through a new tune and get some real world experience.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/vp-small-engine-fuels-pre-mixed-40:1-2-cycle-fuel-1-gal
 

Polar_Bus

Well-Known Member
Messages
411
Location
New Hampshire USA
40:1 is way too lean for 1/5, cuz they run much much higher rpms than a saw.....
Chainsaws run comprable rpm's (10-14k) as compared to 1/5's . When i raced 125cc motocross i ran 40:1 for years and 125cc engines run about 11k. Im in the mindset that the RC mfg's suggest a pig rich oil ratio because they don't want any potential engine warranty issues . Maybe im off base as far as my opinion, so lets not argue opinions , and lets test and find out how a CY engine will behave running 40:1 premixed small engine fuel. I can tell you this, when you buy premixed fuel off the shelf i guarantee you are getting a quality consistient octane with zero moisture content. You buy uncle Bobs convienence store fuel you have NO idea as to the contaminates that could be present.
 

Z.hb71

Well used 🐓 Harvester😳
Build Thread Contributor
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13,119
Chainsaws run comprable rpm's (10-14k) as compared to 1/5's . When i raced 125cc motocross i ran 40:1 for years and 125cc engines run about 11k. Im in the mindset that the RC mfg's suggest a pig rich oil ratio because they don't want any potential engine warranty issues . Maybe im off base as far as my opinion, so lets not argue opinions , and lets test and find out how a CY engine will behave running 40:1 premixed small engine fuel. I can tell you this, when you buy premixed fuel off the shelf i guarantee you are getting a quality consistient octane with zero moisture content. You buy uncle Bobs convienence store fuel you have NO idea as to the contaminates that could be present.
Ok then, well see. Best way to see is to test like to said 👍
 

John Parks

Needs a license 🤦‍♂️
Messages
1,339
Lmao, I sure in the hell wouldn't waste that kind of money on small engines running VP. I run ethanol free in all my equipment but its pump gas. You can search on google for ethanol free stations in your area usually.
 

Top Dead Center

Dose party tricks 🎊
Messages
435
Location
Colorado
I remember running old chainsaws and such at a 16:1 mix. I believe the EPA was instrumental in the changes in mix ratios for 2 stroke fuel. Thus, those in the industry made advancements in lubricant formulations and synthetic bases.

I recall looking at an Amsoil mix that claimed you could run at 100:1. I just don't have the balls to try it on any of my equipment. I guess I could try it on an old weedeater now that we have fake grass.

Edit: I found the oil. Turns out it is for outboards.

Edit #2: It is Amsoil Saber that recommends 100 or 80:1 mix regardless of the specified mix ratio.
 
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Polar_Bus

Well-Known Member
Messages
411
Location
New Hampshire USA
I remember running old chainsaws and such at a 16:1 mix.
I don't really recall 16:1 , but I seem to remember the standard back in the 80's was 32:1 ?
The huge benefit of oil injection is the fact the oil delivery flow is variable based upon engine rpm's. Most high performance engines will meter about 20:1 at WOT , but adversely and idle there is no oil delivery, and from 1/8 throttle to 3/4 throttle it's 50:1 . It's pretty impressive to me that there has been zero chainsaw engine failures from running 50:1 . Makes me call into question why HPI says you need to run 25:1 ?? Friggin' quality full synthetic 2s oil is dam expensive !

I'm not 100% sure but looks like the VP small engine premix fuel uses Motul synthetic oil.
 
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Seandonato73

The carb doctor👨‍⚕️
Messages
6,130
So I can shed some light on the oil mix ratio over the years..... since I know saws the best I'll even include some pics of my collection. First up is my lancaster 60. Built some time in the 60's it says to use 1/2 pint to a gallon of 30wt oil. 16:1
Now fast forward 10 years
McCulloch 10-10 automatic, made in the mid 70's to early 80's. This one calls for the same mix. still running engine oil at, you guessed it 16 to 1 with 40wt oil. Note that if you are using the "custom lubricant" you can run 40 to 1.
Now jump another 10 years or so
McCulloch Pm605 mid 80's saw
Two stroke oil has been out for some time now, and the recommended mix is only 40 to 1.
Now im gonna lump all these guys together as I stopped buying semi pro saws. These are the runner, I use them a lot. Some more then others. The 394xp is used on my mill. There is no such thing as a harder life for a saw or any other two stroke engine. It runs and lives happily on 40 to 1. It is recommended to run at 50 to 1.
The 390xp is my newest saw. Anything I cant tackle with an 18 inch bar, this boy come out. I run a 24 or 36 inch bar on it. Between the 390xp and the 359 its anyone's guess which one is ran the most. The 359, has a woods ported cylinder, modded muffler and a bored carb, modified to get the most out of this cylinder configuration, and still last for years. Both are able to run 50 to 1, in stock form. I run everything at 40 to 1 just so I don't have to keep tons of fuel on hand. I'll have to look for my old race saw. It's a 346xp new edition ( read 50 cc not 47) this saw pit of the cut revs (with 20 inch bar and chain) 19,500 rpm all day everyday. It runs 30 to 1. Runs on 106 octane race fuel. So I guess what I'm trying to get at, is given the age were In now, with the high quality lubricants, there is no real reason, other then preference to run such high oil ratios. I basically mix 40 to 1 and 30 to 1. Covers all my bases, and I've not had am issue with lube related failures.
@Polar_Bus, I expect your engine to have a good long life.
 

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Polar_Bus

Well-Known Member
Messages
411
Location
New Hampshire USA
So I can shed some light on the oil mix ratio over the years..... since I know saws the best I'll even include some pics of my collection. First up is my lancaster 60. Built some time in the 60's it says to use 1/2 pint to a gallon of 30wt oil. 16:1
Now fast forward 10 years
McCulloch 10-10 automatic, made in the mid 70's to early 80's. This one calls for the same mix. still running engine oil at, you guessed it 16 to 1 with 40wt oil. Note that if you are using the "custom lubricant" you can run 40 to 1.
Now jump another 10 years or so
McCulloch Pm605 mid 80's saw
Two stroke oil has been out for some time now, and the recommended mix is only 40 to 1.
Now im gonna lump all these guys together as I stopped buying semi pro saws. These are the runner, I use them a lot. Some more then others. The 394xp is used on my mill. There is no such thing as a harder life for a saw or any other two stroke engine. It runs and lives happily on 40 to 1. It is recommended to run at 50 to 1.
The 390xp is my newest saw. Anything I cant tackle with an 18 inch bar, this boy come out. I run a 24 or 36 inch bar on it. Between the 390xp and the 359 its anyone's guess which one is ran the most. The 359, has a woods ported cylinder, modded muffler and a bored carb, modified to get the most out of this cylinder configuration, and still last for years. Both are able to run 50 to 1, in stock form. I run everything at 40 to 1 just so I don't have to keep tons of fuel on hand. I'll have to look for my old race saw. It's a 346xp new edition ( read 50 cc not 47) this saw pit of the cut revs (with 20 inch bar and chain) 19,500 rpm all day everyday. It runs 30 to 1. Runs on 106 octane race fuel. So I guess what I'm trying to get at, is given the age were In now, with the high quality lubricants, there is no real reason, other then preference to run such high oil ratios. I basically mix 40 to 1 and 30 to 1. Covers all my bases, and I've not had am issue with lube related failures.
@Polar_Bus, I expect your engine to have a good long life.
Wow, you know small engines for sure ! Thanks for chiming in and adding your expertise ! That's a really cool display of vintage saws ! I love it ! I recently bought the Husqvarna 450e 20" rancher (i have an oak wooded 1 acre lot and occasionally need to cut broken limbs and downed trees. I think i made a good choice for my $375-ish budget. Never gave much thought to buying the factory premixed fuels until my Husqvarna salesman explained the "extended 5 year warranty" structure if you buy 96 oz. of the Husquvarna premix fuel (so obviously I did as it seems a smart call ). My new Husq 450 is an impressive saw as far as power and crisp throttle response. The Husq 50:1 premix has ZERO smoke out the muffler, and the exhaust smells very strange. This new saw experience really got me thinking about WTF am i drowning my Rovan with 28:1 and this in any way really necessary ? Ill let everyone know...
 
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Seandonato73

The carb doctor👨‍⚕️
Messages
6,130
I would bet it has a catalyst in the muffler. That's why it smells weird. I can tell you that at one point or another it should have an accident and fall out of the muffler 😉.
 

Polar_Bus

Well-Known Member
Messages
411
Location
New Hampshire USA

Twitchsoft

Member
Messages
22
Location
Metro Detroit
So this fall i've had my carbs crap out on both my old 1980's chainsaw , and my 5 y/o leaf blower. I know well and good its completely due to Ethanol contamination. Ive been doing much research and seems as the expert commercial landscapers and loggers swear by running quality Ethanol free premixed fuels such as VP or TruFuel. Seems to me that running a oil bath 28:1 mix as suggested by the 1/5 scale mfgs is way overkill and limits performance. My new Husqvarna chainsaw suggests 50:1 and im reading that this leaner ratio is 100% reliable. Chainsaw engines take an equal beating if not harder than a 1/5 scale. I think for the sake of my curiosity and the sake of argument im going to try some VP 40:1 premix fuel. I can buy it for $22 / gallon. Im so sick and tired of dicking around trying to keep pump fuel stabilized on all my small engines that don't get run frequently. Even if i blow up my Rovan, its no big deal. Not like its a High end race engine ! Ill be sure and update this thread as i work through a new tune and get some real world experience.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/vp-small-engine-fuels-pre-mixed-40:1-2-cycle-fuel-1-gal
So this fall i've had my carbs crap out on both my old 1980's chainsaw , and my 5 y/o leaf blower. I know well and good its completely due to Ethanol contamination. Ive been doing much research and seems as the expert commercial landscapers and loggers swear by running quality Ethanol free premixed fuels such as VP or TruFuel. Seems to me that running a oil bath 28:1 mix as suggested by the 1/5 scale mfgs is way overkill and limits performance. My new Husqvarna chainsaw suggests 50:1 and im reading that this leaner ratio is 100% reliable. Chainsaw engines take an equal beating if not harder than a 1/5 scale. I think for the sake of my curiosity and the sake of argument im going to try some VP 40:1 premix fuel. I can buy it for $22 / gallon. Im so sick and tired of dicking around trying to keep pump fuel stabilized on all my small engines that don't get run frequently. Even if i blow up my Rovan, its no big deal. Not like its a High end race engine ! Ill be sure and update this thread as i work through a new tune and get some real world experience.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/vp-small-engine-fuels-pre-mixed-40:1-2-cycle-fuel-1-gal
Just throwing this in there but I would go through the whole motor and give it a good baptizing with a good brake cleaner on all contact points and bearings to give your new fuel a fresh start. It's amazing how much the tiniest bit of build up will affect performance. Cuz if your carbs are gummed up then... Also, 40:1 in my opinion will do more than fine in that motor. Your temp will let you know.
 

cbaker65

Chokin the chicken too much! 🐔😳
PLUS member
Messages
2,130
Agree that ethanol does harm ,but ive been a hardcore gardner for over 20 years ,my equipment never stops ,my 2001
T-230 still kicks but off of ethanol ,its all original ,including the carb internals ,I think the secret to that is ,my equipment
is never shut down through the seasons ,winter ,I plant rye ,so my equipment goes through rough brutal use on scalping
grasses!....:cool:
 

Clubin

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,330
Location
Manitoba
Biggest problem we have is we cannot get fuel that does not have ethanol in it. The only way to get it is to burn aviation fuel which is 130 octane, and leaded.
The octane is higher but does not hinder operation.
Mix it up and it’s good forever. Lol.
 

Z.hb71

Well used 🐓 Harvester😳
Build Thread Contributor
Messages
13,119
Biggest problem we have is we cannot get fuel that does not have ethanol in it. The only way to get it is to burn aviation fuel which is 130 octane, and leaded.
The octane is higher but does not hinder operation.
Mix it up and it’s good forever. Lol.
Av gas is awesome just (depending on where you live) sometimes you have to have a registered aircraft to buy it 🙄 but if you can buy it that's awesome, and cheap aswell.
 

Clubin

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,330
Location
Manitoba
Av gas is awesome just (depending on where you live) sometimes you have to have a registered aircraft to buy it 🙄 but if you can buy it that's awesome, and cheap aswell.
So long as you have a credit card and a Jerry can, it is available for purchase at our local airport. You can’t get caught burning it in a vehicle that is for highway use. I wouldn’t put it in anything that has a catalytic converter either. My two stroke stuff loves it though.
It’s got a real nice sweet smell to it
 
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