Kraken Vesla Blackbone Gearing Conversion Kit HELP!

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cmbscx10

cmbscx10

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Online help is the hardest to assist with but i am having trouble with the assembly of my Drivetrain/Trans. As with most everything today there are no instructions included but the picture is what is included in the conversion. The movement from side to side is obviously not correct as there has to be something missing or i assembled it incorrectly.

Q: I am not sure where the fender washer (12mm ID) goes to be honest. When i line up the Spur and Pinion there is the amount of space that is the thickness of the washer from the Gear Plate to the backside of the Spur. Does it goes there? If so, the layshaft has about 5mm sticking past the Spur gear holder thing. From the picture of what is included there was No spacer so is this something i need to get separately?

Q2: There were (2) Shims in the bag that had the Clutch bell. The ID is to small for the shaft so what are these for?

Please advise as to what i might be missing.

Taylor RC Vesla Billet 3PC HD Transmission Housing
Kraken RC Vesla Big Bore Hardened Gear Set For Gas-Electric (Diff-Drive) **
Taylor RC Vesla Upgraded HD Billet Idler Gear
Kraken Vesla Blackbone Gearing Conversion Kit - Includes: Custom Vesla 54mm Blackbone Clutch bell - Set of Blackbone Gears (Pinion and Spur 20/55) - Billet Spur Gear Carrier - Blackbone Vesla Layshaft
Kraken RC Hardened Steel Bevel Gears Set for Vekta.5/Vesla.5
Kraken RC VESLA.5 HD T6061 Billet Aluminum Gear Plate
Taylor RC Vesla Billet LH Engine Brace
OBR 34 Reed
MOD 54mm Clutch


20241031_142030.webp20241031_142443.webp20241031_142452.webp
 
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Your missing an aluminum spacer about the size of that gap. That goes behind the gear to bring it flush with the bolt at the end of the layshaft. That would make your pinion not match up so your washers must go there. I can’t remember 100% I’ll have to look at mine when I get home.
 
GazooRC,
Thank you very much on the reply. Yeah no aluminum space was with my kit. If i follow correctly....

Aluminum Spacer goes where the Orange Arrow is
vlcsnap-2024-11-18-13h05m51s054.webp

The Orange Shims are placed where the Yellow Arrow is to line up the bolt/washer with the end of the Pinion?
9cb896_0dbae653f8804a0698deba01c3acd584~mv2.webp
 
cmbscx10 said:
GazooRC,
Thank you very much on the reply. Yeah no aluminum space was with my kit. If i follow correctly....

Aluminum Spacer goes where the Orange Arrow is
View attachment 107190

The Orange Shims are placed where the Yellow Arrow is to line up the bolt/washer with the end of the Pinion?
View attachment 107191
Click to expand...
No there’s a spacer that came with your layshaft. That goes on the layshaft behind the gear.
 
GazooRC said:
No there’s a spacer that came with your layshaft. That goes on the layshaft behind the gear.
Click to expand...
Thank you

This Orange Arrow one? If so, it is Gear Plate - Spacer - Spur Gear
9cb896_3f891d6fe03045268e4e8a9e3eab48d3~mv2.webp

Now i still have to finger out what to do with the Clutch bell movement.
 
GazooRC said:
Yup that’s it.
The crush washers should take up any slack on the pinion side.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the confirmation.

The only things left in the "Kit" are (1) 3mm thick washer and (2) .5mm shims. Size wise those can only go on the Black shaft portion of the Clutch bell. I am still at a loss for what to do on the side to side gap/movement of the clutch bell. I'll take some measurement and see if i can find a spacer.
 
Thank you very much. Yours definitely looks more correct. Is that the Blackbone conversion clutch bell? I'm wondering but also could be my lack of knowledge if I received a HPI Baja Clutch Bell?

I'm going to have a lot of fun explaining the situation to Detroit Performance.
 
GazooRC said:
That does look weird huh where did you get it from? Are you still having figment issues? Sorry I keep forgetting to look at mine. Probably won’t be able to see much though without taking it apart.
Click to expand...
Everything was purchased from Detroit Performance. Thank to you sharing your knowledge i was able to resolve the Spur issue with the aluminum spacer. I am still trying to figure out what is going on with the clutch bell. Crucial's Clutch bell looks more like what i need so digging into that before i contact DP.

A huge thanks to everyone that has helped so far. I am not stupid but feel so with this part of the build.
 
cmbscx10 said:
Thank you very much. Yours definitely looks more correct. Is that the Blackbone conversion clutch bell? I'm wondering but also could be my lack of knowledge if I received a HPI Baja Clutch Bell?

I'm going to have a lot of fun explaining the situation to Detroit Performance.
Click to expand...
Yes Blackbone from DP. Iirc I think John sent me the wrong bell 1st when I ordered the setup then he sent me the correct one. Reach out to John. He'll get you straight.
 
cmbscx10 said:
Everything was purchased from Detroit Performance. Thank to you sharing your knowledge i was able to resolve the Spur issue with the aluminum spacer. I am still trying to figure out what is going on with the clutch bell. Crucial's Clutch bell looks more like what i need so digging into that before i contact DP.

A huge thanks to everyone that has helped so far. I am not stupid but feel so with this part of the build.
Click to expand...
Yea John is great like crucial said he will make it right. Just send him a pic he will probably know just from looking at it.
 
crucialRC said:
Yes Blackbone from DP. Iirc I think John sent me the wrong bell 1st when I ordered the setup then he sent me the correct one. Reach out to John. He'll get you straight.
Click to expand...

GazooRC said:
Yea John is great like crucial said he will make it right. Just send him a pic he will probably know just from looking at it.
Click to expand...

You guys flippin rock. Thank you. I'll reach out to John today.
 
I traded a few e-mails with John and as of last night i am waiting to hear back from him. He mentioned Crucials Clutch bell being 62mm and would be different than the 54mm i am using.

Johns suggestion was to use the (2) shims on the bell behind the gear (See Pic) as that keeps it from falling backwards aka sliding back and forth between the bearings. I did that and they are the same OD as the shoulder so it did not accomplish anything. Plus no way (2) .5mm shims are suppose to keep a clutch bell from sliding back and forth between the bearings. That is just silly. Plus it screws up the gear mesh and makes the mating surface from the shaft to the pinion gear not right. I took a video and pictures and e-mail those to him and will see what he says. ** See Pics **
20241120_151442.webp20241120_151551.webp20241120_151601.webp

Blackbone Left and Kraken Stock on Right
20241120_153909.webp
As my pea brain was still firing on 2 of 8 cylinders' i took the stock Kraken Clutch Bell and Pinion and installed it to see if it would work. It does 100% proving the Blackbone Clutch bell has an issue that i am not smart enough to relay as to what/why.

If i go with the Kraken pinion and Blackbone Spur it will work but has two negatives. The 1st is that the stock pinion is potmetal and will likely not last behind my OBR. Second is the gear ratio i chose in the Blackbone was 55/20 giving me a FDR of 2.75. With the Kraken pinion an dBlackbone Spur the only offerings are a 19T so my 55/19 FDR would be 2.89 which is lower than i want to go.

20241120_155012.webp
 
cmbscx10 said:
I traded a few e-mails with John and as of last night i am waiting to hear back from him. He mentioned Crucials Clutch bell being 62mm and would be different than the 54mm i am using.

Johns suggestion was to use the (2) shims on the bell behind the gear (See Pic) as that keeps it from falling backwards aka sliding back and forth between the bearings. I did that and they are the same OD as the shoulder so it did not accomplish anything. Plus no way (2) .5mm shims are suppose to keep a clutch bell from sliding back and forth between the bearings. That is just silly. Plus it screws up the gear mesh and makes the mating surface from the shaft to the pinion gear not right. I took a video and pictures and e-mail those to him and will see what he says. ** See Pics **
View attachment 107215View attachment 107216View attachment 107217

Blackbone Left and Kraken Stock on Right
View attachment 107218
As my pea brain was still firing on 2 of 8 cylinders' i took the stock Kraken Clutch Bell and Pinion and installed it to see if it would work. It does 100% proving the Blackbone Clutch bell has an issue that i am not smart enough to relay as to what/why.

If i go with the Kraken pinion and Blackbone Spur it will work but has two negatives. The 1st is that the stock pinion is potmetal and will likely not last behind my OBR. Second is the gear ratio i chose in the Blackbone was 55/20 giving me a FDR of 2.75. With the Kraken pinion an dBlackbone Spur the only offerings are a 19T so my 55/19 FDR would be 2.89 which is lower than i want to go.

View attachment 107219
Click to expand...
Yea that's not gunna work. lol I don't have a BAJA bell to compare it to but I don't think that's a Vesla. DO NOT use the Kraken with your Blackbone gears. Those Kraken gears will brake clean off lol
Personally I would email Mike Taylor on this. Detroit is a supplier for Mike. Not sure if John gets Blackbone directly or through Mike. Could have been a mix up along the way. Mike would definitely be able to tell from your pictures though.
 
Hmmm. Did not know Blackbone was Taylor RC. Learn something new every day. VERY HAPPY with the Taylor Trans but no so much on the Blackbone conversion. I feel like i am the only one running my combo which i highly doubt. I'll wait to hear from John and if nothing then i will reach out to Mike Taylor.

Again, I appreciate the help.
 
cmbscx10 said:
Hmmm. Did not know Blackbone was Taylor RC. Learn something new every day. VERY HAPPY with the Taylor Trans but no so much on the Blackbone conversion. I feel like i am the only one running my combo which i highly doubt. I'll wait to hear from John and if nothing then i will reach out to Mike Taylor.

Again, I appreciate the help.
Click to expand...
No Blackbone isn't made by Tailer RC. I didn't know if Detroit got blackbone parts direct from them or if he got them from Mike since Detroit sells for Mike. Mike will know what you have though.
 
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