Burned by Rovan RC KingMotorRC

[DougStar]

valid point ...........but to be honest who gives a rats ass??‍???

I've read both the threads, and this has become a complete "He said, He said" kind of situation. Having never done business with Rovan, I have no basis for comparison. And I haven't seen hide nor hair of crankestein on this forum since joining earlier this year, so I can't make any judgement there either.

I honestly have no horse in this race. I have nothing against either of you. However, neither of you are providing a complete picture of your discussions. If you two want to fight this out here and expect any of us to make a judgement one way or the other, you need to provide the complete picture, including the entire email/text chain. Unless that happens, this thread is a complete waste of forum space.

 

[AnubisBC]

valid point ...........but to be honest who gives a rats ass?

Probably no one who's been around the bend on these forums! But I'm bored, and want to see these guys provide us with more than just rhetoric.

 

[Polar_Bus]

Well stated AnibusBC on both your post comments. I was somewhat dissapointed when people seem to immediately take a side when the complaint first came to light. Always 2 sides to every story, and the o/p certainly had a legimitate issue but what happened thereafter is simply an argumentitive sh!t show. Im done with thread as well.

 

[crankestein]

I have provided emails and two links of items showing the QC and issues w his trucks.

If anyone you should be asking for more info is to Rovan / Dan.

My replies are for the forum but are also to him. I did contest his response with facts.

Rovan Kingmotors, talks and talks, am just waiting for him. Trust me, this thread is finally going to show who this guy really is. He just accomplished what he wanted.
He brought a claim from 2015! We had done business afterwards, that he uses that as defense speaks this guy is cheap as can be. My point was, we had a clash in 2015, we continued doing business in a normal way. Now this happens and uses it as ammo to defend what? Why he cant give me my $70 when I returned an unused item, what is there is to justify? besides that the guy is a scammer.

I have been in this rc hobby for a while, and for those who don't know I sell engines in rcgroups, my username is

Pipboy997

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/itrader.php?u=753020
*thats the link to my profile, 100% seller rating! I have sold items all the way to HI, Europe, South America, buyers have paid w personal checks, am a person of integrity. If I give you my word, I promise I will not let anybody down.

 

[RENOV8R]

.....

 

[D3MON]

trying to understand completely here,
You were offered 70 dollar in-store credit, refund, or replacement (to the blue one). you chose store credit correct? if so, "a man of his word" rings both ways, i could definitely see how they would get frustrated with you opening a paypal claim for a refund, after your decision to get store credit. also if this was in fact over the weekend, many people take the weekend off of work i do, and i catch up on emails on correspondences the Monday i get back. if not some more clarification on this would be very beneficial.

reading through that first thread link you posted, you got very aggressive with a guy on his own dime and time trying to help you out and gather information to relay back to manufacturer. i understand being frustrated with products, i really do, but IMO jumping all over him was not the best call. might have been a bit of a miss-interpretation, but in the beginning as a by-stander perspective, it definitely didn't feel like he was "assuming" it was and old model/batch, he was asking, as the issues or so was stated to be similar to the issues from the batches that suffered the worst. all the factory hears is feedback from dealers, so gathering data from the customers, dealers can properly give feedback to the factory. if it was in fact the early model/bad batch, they had already heard about the problems and had been attempting to correct them, so gathering more data on those would be a moot point.
if it was a new model, the dealer would gather then information and pass that along to the factory to attempt to correct in the future.
bringing in the claim from 2015 is more than appropriate if it was a bad dealing (on either party) with the same customer in question. was there more recent bad dealings like this between 2015 and now aside from the current that were not resolved?

 

[crankestein]

Any other store that at the time I decide to leave as store credit for something it was their fault, and later, for whatever reason I changed my mind be it because I crashed the truck (most cases when a rc plane hits the deck, lol), I get the refund if so I wish.

It is very different if the item purchased was not what was broken and is sent back because of my error, then most stores will say store credit only. In this case I decides that way.

No, there was no drama since 2015, and only because I came to terms to accept buying clone parts is a hit or miss deal, just like buying airplanes from ValueHobby or batteries from Hobbyking. Rovanrc and Value Hobby are similar where they take things personal, and attempt to deal w the customer at a one on one level, something that I don't like because I know how they turn out.

With Value Hobby, bought two rc balsa planes, for both planes the cowls would not fit, and exactly because they had cowls is why I ordered them. Called for them to send me new ones, they reply was thats their QC, they will send them, but if for item imperfections will be sending back or asking for parts, to pls buy somewhere else, that if I want quality then buy at Tower or Amainhobbies, those stores.

So to me Dan runs a similar business, but he is not that explicit as the VH owner.
Hobbypartz and Blackhorse models also came down in similar fashion, wheels with way different colors and airplanes w no landing gear fuselage holes in its wings.

But as you can see from that thread, Dan is nowhere, but at the time I thought the Kingmotor user was trying to tone it down to not make as as bad as it was.

I had explained all the issues w Dan, if this guy is a distributor or whatever he is, he should be contacting the company, and possibly if he then comes to me w more hope in his words, then I may have reacted differently. The one you say I blow up on him, barely asked anything, he started w speculation about this and about that, when it was irrelevant. Someone w so much reach and possibly potential connections through all the stress I was going through. Luckily I had previous rc experience, but I bet you there is out there tons of buyers who their trucks ended like mine, and are piled in a corner of a basement on buckets, for a very bad idea purchase and don't let anyone know so I don't get burned for buying clones, or in the trash.

Right now I have a rental property, its been flipped, I paid this guy 2k in August for new carpet, we signed zero contracts as crazy as it sounds, but this guy is gold, 100% always. The carpet will be installed in January, I just talked to him last week, he even told me if I wanted the materials at the rental to bring over and I told him no, there is no need for it.

*thats how one runs a business w customers at a one on one level.

If he is not ready for that, then stick w chats, and strickly Paypal claims/cases.

But it was many times during the 2015 rc truck issue where I waited waited, many promises and no action. And the same goes for me, either I accept what comes w you get what you pay for in QC and customer service, or take my business elsewhere.

I receive from HK lipos w bad cells all the time. I don't open a thread slamming them. Why? Because they keep it at a business level always, and get the credit or refund as I want. I don't even want to add up, but they know their small losses w me, is nothing to how much I spend w them.

 

[D3MON]

Any other store that at the time I decide to leave as store credit for something it was their fault, and later, for whatever reason I changed my mind be it because I crashed the truck (most cases when a rc plane hits the deck, lol), I get the refund if so I wish.

It is very different if the item purchased was not what was broken and is sent back because of my error, then most stores will say store credit only. In this case I decides that way.

No, there was no drama since 2015, and only because I came to terms to accept buying clone parts is a hit or miss deal, just like buying airplanes from ValueHobby or batteries from Hobbyking. Rovanrc and Value Hobby are similar where they take things personal, and attempt to deal w the customer at a one on one level, something that I don't like because I know how they turn out.

With Value Hobby, bought two rc balsa planes, for both planes the cowls would not fit, and exactly because they had cowls is why I ordered them. Called for them to send me new ones, they reply was thats their QC, they will send them, but if for item imperfections will be sending back or asking for parts, to pls buy somewhere else, that if I want quality then buy at Tower or Amainhobbies, those stores.

So to me Dan runs a similar business, but he is not that explicit as the VH owner.
Hobbypartz and Blackhorse models also came down in similar fashion, wheels with way different colors and airplanes w no landing gear fuselage holes in its wings.

But as you can see from that thread, Dan is nowhere, but at the time I thought the Kingmotor user was trying to tone it down to not make as as bad as it was.

I had explained all the issues w Dan, if this guy is a distributor or whatever he is, he should be contacting the company, and possibly if he then comes to me w more hope in his words, then I may have reacted differently. The one you say I blow up on him, barely asked anything, he started w speculation about this and about that, when it was irrelevant. Someone w so much reach and possibly potential connections through all the stress I was going through. Luckily I had previous rc experience, but I bet you there is out there tons of buyers who their trucks ended like mine, and are piled in a corner of a basement on buckets, for a very bad idea purchase and don't let anyone know so I don't get burned for buying clones, or in the trash.

Right now I have a rental property, its beeen flipped, I paid this guy 2k in August for new carpet, we signed zero contracts as crazy as it sounds, but this guy is gold, 100% always. The carpet will be installed in January, I just talked to him last week, he even told me if I wanted the materials at the rental to bring over and I told him know.

*thats how one runs a business if to dealing w customers at a one on one level.

If he is not ready for that, then stick w chats, and strickly Paypal claims/cases.

But it was many times during the 2015 rc truck issue where I waited waited, many promises and no action. And the same goes for me, either I accept what comes w you get what you pay for in QC and customer service, or take my business elsewhere.

I receive from HK lipos w bad cells all the time. I don't open a thread slamming them. Why? Because they keep it at a business level always, and get the credit or refund as I want. I don't even want to add up, but they know their small losses w me, is nothing to how much I spend w them.

i do get your frustration, but when i was working in retail, store credit is store credit. we cant cash out store credit, we weren't a bank. just because Business "A" does it, doesn't mean Business "B" will do it. just shows that yes business A is trying to go an extra mile for the customer. and Business "B" is sticking to procedures. it might be good for costumer service, but it is much worse for business, especially the size of business they run.

yes i see your point on the contract thing, but as i am currently in the sub-contracting business, that is a very dangerous practice to get used to. its not a matter of if you will get burned doing that, its when. (unless a receipt was written or a confirmation email (emails are a legal document), or even a text that showed the agreement. i wish that were not the case, and we could trust people/companies like that, but we can't. so trying to get a multi-million dollar company to take risks and put money on the line for people that they don't know personally, that will run the business to the ground faster than you could drop a dollar bill. again, just because company A does it doesn't mean Company B will.

Post #22, #25, #32 on the first link, #22 "following your line of thought" how was posted was meant to be demeaning,
#25 especially as it was your response to him. "listen Buddy i don't know you but if one thing i will not...." as all he had previously done is try to confirm what model/batch it was from.

either way kind of cleared a few things up for me on dealing with KM/Rovan.
have a good day sir. hope you get to running soon!

 

[crankestein]

you as well have a good day/night.

Already explained about the credit. There is no extra mile, I told him leave it as store credit, he did not say only store credit. That I changed my mind, so, whats the big deal?
There is no policy as you so say...
In fact, Rovan and Kingmotors is worst than Aliexpress and Amazon sellers posting refund and warranty.

This is not that I changed my mind on the purchase, this was a mislabeled item to a wrong model. I paid for return shipping as well, if I decide later to get a refund, why not? He said hey we can save it as store credit, it was not that the company said credit only since the beginning and thats what you are not picking up in this. To later not even recognize that I have it and leace it to PP to decide is a cheap move.

That is suppose to be demeaning is just your opinion, I never got flagged for it or any warning, so so far maybe you are diggin too much into the postings. So am there all pissed off, and you have this guy coming to me asking QC questions, and ai never heard from him again. When its the middle of Xmas, a gift that me and my son were going to enjoy, just make it happen.
I don't care if maybe its this, or that, wrong timing.

QC is not done when there is a dispute going on between seller and buyer and is obvious am not satisfied w the product. He never came back, a month later to see how things were going on, this guy was not helping me as so its said, and never did.
I purchased a ARRMA Talion on Tower Hobbies, arrived with warpes tires, with terrible wheel plastics, and bad pinion gear. ARRMA years ago was going through a transition of upgrading and my truck was one of those w bad ESCs, wheels, etc. For about a month I waited for a warranty claim, nothing arrived. I called, and ARRMA management did not call me for QC questions, they called what do I need to get the truck running. They sent four new tires, a new ESC, three differentials, hubs, dog bones, tons of stuff not listed in my warranty claim. Management called back to follow up. A few months later I bought a Outcast, thats how one runs a business, thats a multi million company is run!

Following your literal understanding on the verbal payment. Lets continue then, am not a multi-million company. This was just to explain what is to be a person of your word.

The difference is Dan does go to the personal level and prevents as much as possible for Paypal to intervene. But becomes a game half promises as he did w the returned item. He offered a discount on the next purchase, verbally, you are going to give a discount, give me a coupon code, not a "hey next time you order something remind me to give you a discount", and this is where the carpet guy and Dan run parallel, but one is committed on a 2k deal, while the other one is not for $70.
Motionrc gave me a code for the next purchase for a bad fuselage.

I will get the truck running, just some minor details to address, so thanks for the best wishes.

Just like I said on the previous posting, I have to come to terms on the QC of his products and keep all transactions/refunds with Paypal.

 

[AnubisBC]

I need to preface this post that I've never ordered so much as a single piece of scrap from Rovan, and am actually biased against clone companies. But I'm still not seeing any kind of continuity to your claims.

There is no extra mile, I told him leave it as store credit, he did not say only store credit. That I changed my mind, so, whats the big deal?

Okay, so you told him to leave it as a store credit, and his email responses back up that claim. But because he didn't specifically tell you that this would "only" be store credit, this inferred that a refund was also an option? So you could change your mind some time later and ask for a refund? I didn't see that implied anywhere in the emails you've posted. I also don't see a single email where you are making an order and asking for the credit to be honored.

I purchased a ARRMA Talion on Tower Hobbies, arrived with warpes tires, with terrible wheel plastics, and bad pinion gear. ARRMA years ago was going through a transition of upgrading and my truck was one of those w bad ESCs, wheels, etc. For about a month I waited for a warranty claim, nothing arrived. I called, and ARRMA management did not call me for QC questions, they called what do I need to get the truck running. They sent four new tires, a new ESC, three differentials, hubs, dog bones, tons of stuff not listed in my warranty claim. Management called back to follow up.

This is not an equivalent example. ARRMA is a manufacturer and has a large group of people in many arms of the company. I'm certain they have a dedicated team of people specifically assigned for follow up and customer satisfaction. Clone retailers are not as robustly equipped, as they are just the end point retailer. According to your previous examples, Dan/Rovan tried to do the same thing, but without adding in a bunch of extras:

I don't see whats the problem, we talked it over well, you gave partial refund, sent parts, and so on.

Lets not forget the new engine I bought from you and had scarred piston and piston sleeve. I did sent that one back, no issues, using Paypal and you once again acknowledge the damages to it.

So he acknowledged that there was damage. I'm assuming you got a refund via paypal or via Dan, so where's the issue?

Dan/RovanRC is not the manufacturer. He's a retailer. Clones like KM and Rovan don't have a central entity that acts in the same way as HPI or ARRMA with any kind of accountability, they're just spitting out parts and cars as a distributer. When a guy wants to start a business and get into supplying his hobby without a ton of startup capital, he signs an agreement with a wholesaler and buys about $20k worth of product. It's entirely his responsibility to build the website, market the product and fulfill orders (or drop ship from the central hub) under the name brand supplied. He's just another bastard trying to make a living. He can update definitions on the website, but other than providing feedback to his wholesaler, he has absolutely no control over the QC process. This is a lesson everyone on this forum needs to learn.

And I read further into your issue and see this:

The difference is Dan does go to the personal level and prevents as much as possible for Paypal to intervene. But becomes a game half promises as he did w the returned item. He offered a discount on the next purchase, verbally, you are going to give a discount, give me a coupon code, not a "hey next time you order something remind me to give you a discount"

As a previous small business owner, this is exactly the kind of promise I would make. If you don't ask for a full refund, I will offer you a refund or credit via email (which is actually a binding contract in the US). You say you want a credit, so I take you on your word. I have your user details in my database, and there is a record of your orders, refunds and credits. I shouldn't have to give you a special code in order to honor my promise to you. You make an order, and when I fulfill it, your account shows up that I owe you a credit.

I don't see any request for a refund in the emails you've provided. I do see an offer for credit, and your acceptance. Then I see a paypal refund request months later.

Let's be real here. If I order a part from DDM and find it not fitting the description, I will either ask for a refund, or ask for credit knowing I will shop there again. If, after 6 months, I find myself in a situation where I won't order anymore parts from DDM, I won't suddenly go to my credit card company and ask them to reverse the charge I made half a year ago. They wouldn't after that long anyway. It really doesn't matter what took you away from pushing Paypal for a refund in a timely fashion. The fact of the matter is, you didn't. And you still haven't shown us a single interaction where Dan refused you the credit.

 

[crankestein]

I am the one who has not seen any proof of the so many things you have experience...?

Where did I say what you posted in each of the things you thought (speculations) thats what I meant?

And seriously, and lets get real, if you cant see it, its fine with me as well. and yes I did show it.

Am still also waiting for the policies and/or terms and conditions of the sale that you refer to, links, screenshots?

 

[DougStar]

Not wanting to sound like a D_ _ K! But come on now give it a rest !
So you feel shafted great .......moving on

 

[crankestein]

Not wanting to sound like a D_ _ K! But come on now give it a rest !
So you feel shafted great .......moving on

I understand, but he seemed to have developed an interest to this thread. I am just responding to his concerns. I did move on, as Dan and I have been talking over email all along in good terms.

If anyone should give it a rest is him with his sudden inquiries about the subject.

 

[1Coopgt]

Sorry to here you had a bad experience. But your experience won't change my mind about buying from Rovan. I spent a lot of money on my buggy and parts from Rovan here in NY and had no issues. And if needs be I will buy other parts from them in the future.

Personally I think it's petty and bullshite when people come onto a forum and bash a business. Why don't you take it to small claims court if your that upset that's what they are there for.

 

[crankestein]

I will do that next time, to take him to a small claims court, but seriously, I have to see where I should submit the claim for the $70, in NY or here where I live. But this thread is not about the money.

Thats your opinion about been BS and I respect it, else admin would have shut down this thread from the start. Am not stirring the pot, am just stating the facts, and I am not disrespecting or mocking anyone. In rcgroups they even have a vendor and tradertalk section where one can open threads situations just like this one.

Am not trying to convince anyone to NOT conduct business with them. I was clear on my previous post, we continue in good terms, and all along I have said that I want to continue doing business with him.

 

[Thrasher]

If you and Dan have this worked out, then kill this thread. Delete it. It is unfair to Dan to have it around as clearly he have bend over backwards to try and solve the situation. Way beyond what he is legally (or morally) required to do.

 

[AnubisBC]

I am the one who has not seen any proof of the so many things you have experience...?

Where did I say what you posted in each of the things you thought (speculations) thats what I meant?

And seriously, and lets get real, if you cant see it, its fine with me as well. and yes I did show it.

Am still also waiting for the policies and/or terms and conditions of the sale that you refer to, links, screenshots?

Let's be clear here. I'm not the one throwing accusations around. You started this thread, you made the accusations about Rovan's business dealings. The burden of proof is not on me. It's on you. You posted a bunch of emails in your first post, but I saw nothing regarding you asking for a refund, or trying to cash in on your credit. It went from him offering a credit, to you logging a refund case with paypal. That's a lot of missing detail. If you asked for the credit and Rovan did not honor it, I am completely behind your complaint. I'm just not seeing it in any of the emails you've posted thus far.

I understand, but he seemed to have developed an interest to this thread. I am just responding to his concerns. I did move on, as Dan and I have been talking over email all along in good terms.

If anyone should give it a rest is him with his sudden inquiries about the subject.

I'm glad to hear that you and Dan are talking once again and moving forward. But how would any of us know that was the case prior to today? I didn't see any posts stating that you guys have buried the hatchet or that you had "moved on" prior to my post.

I was simply asking for some clarification and giving my own perspective.

Am not trying to convince anyone to NOT conduct business with them. I was clear on my previous post, we continue in good terms, and all along I have said that I want to continue doing business with him.

This entire thread was started by you and about how you felt robbed by them. If that is no longer the case, maybe you should make the statement in a post that is not a response to me or @1Coopgt. Then we can let this whole unpleasant situation fade away to nothing and continue talking about the parts of our hobby that bring us happiness!

 

[DougStar]

Not wanting to sound like a D_ _ K! But come on now give it a rest !

If you and Dan have this worked out, then kill this thread. Delete it. It is unfair to Dan to have it around as clearly he have bend over backwards to try and solve the situation. Way beyond what he is legally (or morally) required to do.

+1?
Ok WE ARE DONE HERE!!!!!

 

[crankestein]

AnubisBC;

Please provide proof of all your previous experience, all the terms and conditions of such businesses and how are they suppose to run at different scales.

You came to this thread stating your vast experience in the business industry.

I already told you, thats up to you that you don't see it. I am not obligated to respond to your demands on how I need to follow up or need to do.
And what if you do see it, what difference does it make?
You talk and talk and talk, and Anubis, I see no substance, pretty much a reflection of what you are questioning.

You can read other threads, nobody is forcing you to come here and reply AnubisBC.

AnubisBC, you should IM me and give it a rest to this thread. Nobody else was posting until you showed up. Your concerns can be discussed through private conversations, and I am the one telling you thats what you should have done as see what have you just have caused, and itsby popular demand, GIVE IT A REST or talk in IM! And seriously Anubis, your signature speaks for itself on how you view yourself, or is it on how you view others?...

*I already submitted a request to admin to close the thread...

 

[1Coopgt]

Am not trying to convince anyone to NOT conduct business with them. I was clear on my previous post, we continue in good terms, and all along I have said that I want to continue doing business with him.

Sadly yes you were and are. With every post in this thread you are trying to convince people not to patronage Rovan. If you weren't you wouldn't have started this thread in the first place. You were unhappy Totally understandable. But as I think one of the others mention if things are truly worked out you would come on here and out right say so and ask to have the thread locked or deleted by the mods.