Oil/Fuel

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Seandonato73 said:
Sorry at a wedding.... just got home.
So the very short version, break in is a waste of time. Idc what engine. Dynoed too many to justify pussy footing around getting a load on the rings. Free revving is also bs, rings need dynamic load to force them out into the cylinder walls. Normally you would vary the rpm a bit, but full load only occurs at rated rpm. don't matter if that's 1800 rpm or 20k rpm. (Our engines are typically rated to around 15k for peak power btw + or - a bit) synthetic does take longer to break in. It's just a fact. It lubricates better than dino juice. I don't swap from one to the other, its normally not worth the extra bottle. The ring (s) should be set within the first few minuets of running. The heat cycle is poop for the birds, and well as low rpm break ins. That's to bed journal bearings, and 2 strokes use ball bearings. So for the sake of argument, worthless to consider for our specific application. The engine should be allowed to warm up a bit before getting with it. After that balls to the walls.
Oil ratio in modern engines is largely in part because of emissions. 32 to 1 was the standard ratio for years. Yes more oil helps seal the rings an cool the engine....but get this, more oil decreases the octane rating, and will cause more carbon fouling of the engine. Oil ratio is also determined by load, and rpm. 2 strokes use a pass through lubrication system (hence why we add oil) so the more rpm, the less time the oil spends in the engine, so you would need more oil. You also have to factor time loaded. In a race application I would spring for a higher oil rate, as the load on the engine is typically larger than a basher. You can tell this from your spark plug. (Which we recently talked about) funny thing is, a 250cc heavily modified mx engine get 40 to 1 nowadays and lives a good long life. And we use 25, and 28 to 1 in our glorified weedwacker engines. We mentioned saws... I have saws that range in age from the 60s to models currently in production. The all eat the 40 to 1 I feed them and none of them have given up the ghost, due to an oil related failure. I guarantee I run my saws harder cutting, in much worse conditions than an rc engine will see in its life.
I'll echo what polar, and a few others have said. Run wtf you want. If it works for you, no use squabbling about it. I'll stick to 40 to 1, and obr and whoever else will tell you thats not enough oil, because they can. And for obvious liability issues as well. Imo anything over 32 to 1 is a waste of expensive oil. Just me, idc how much you put in your engine.
Oh, my basement is my shop.... no Zed dungeons for me, or out buildings atm.... one day...
Click to expand...
Good write up, thank you for the time you took to explain!
 
So, going by every ones experience and knowledge of 2 strokes me running 25:1 is like me kicking the oil bottle over and pouring it on the floor?
I only ask as I'm limited knowledge with 2 strokes and have killed 1 engine 3 times with various issues from running too lean also piston installed wrong way round and the last one was a carb butterfly and screw coming undone. I've always had 4 strokes until 5th scale RC's.
 
Ive tried all the different break in methods and noticed no difference. I like to put a few dabs of 3in1 down the plug hole after a run and while its hot, then cycle the engine a few times. Seems to really help longevity. No cooked rings yet with some engins in the 10 gal range. My 23cc may be closer to 15. Still runs great.
 
21bangbang said:
Ive tried all the different break in methods and noticed no difference. I like to put a few dabs of 3in1 down the plug hole after a run and while its hot, then cycle the engine a few times. Seems to really help longevity. No cooked rings yet with some engins in the 10 gal range. My 23cc may be closer to 15. Still runs great.
Click to expand...
Yeah I had gallons and gallons through my g320, before I ported it.
KevTrem said:
So, going by every ones experience and knowledge of 2 strokes me running 25:1 is like me kicking the oil bottle over and pouring it on the floor?
I only ask as I'm limited knowledge with 2 strokes and have killed 1 engine 3 times with various issues from running too lean also piston installed wrong way round and the last one was a carb butterfly and screw coming undone. I've always had 4 strokes until 5th scale RC's.
Click to expand...
We're ultimately saying its your choice. I understand to someone "new" this can be a daunting thing, but really it's not. Pick an oil, and a ratio and run with it.
 
RickDizzle said:
Thoughts on VP Racing 94 Octane ethanol free small engine fuel with Amsoil Dominator 2 stroke? Planning on running this in my stock Raminator engine.
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That’s the perfect combination that’s exactly what I run in all my small bore engines mixed at 28:1.
My RCMAX 50GT I run Dominator Also but the fuel is Sunoco Supreme 112 Leaded.
Since I broke the 50GT in with a gallon mixed at 25:1 I’m now mixing at 28:1. There is many different mix ratios but you will be safe at 28:1.
 
Seandonato73 said:
Sorry at a wedding.... just got home.
So the very short version, break in is a waste of time. Idc what engine. Dynoed too many to justify pussy footing around getting a load on the rings. Free revving is also bs, rings need dynamic load to force them out into the cylinder walls. Normally you would vary the rpm a bit, but full load only occurs at rated rpm. don't matter if that's 1800 rpm or 20k rpm. (Our engines are typically rated to around 15k for peak power btw + or - a bit) synthetic does take longer to break in. It's just a fact. It lubricates better than dino juice. I don't swap from one to the other, its normally not worth the extra bottle. The ring (s) should be set within the first few minuets of running. The heat cycle is poop for the birds, and well as low rpm break ins. That's to bed journal bearings, and 2 strokes use ball bearings. So for the sake of argument, worthless to consider for our specific application. The engine should be allowed to warm up a bit before getting with it. After that balls to the walls.
Oil ratio in modern engines is largely in part because of emissions. 32 to 1 was the standard ratio for years. Yes more oil helps seal the rings an cool the engine....but get this, more oil decreases the octane rating, and will cause more carbon fouling of the engine. Oil ratio is also determined by load, and rpm. 2 strokes use a pass through lubrication system (hence why we add oil) so the more rpm, the less time the oil spends in the engine, so you would need more oil. You also have to factor time loaded. In a race application I would spring for a higher oil rate, as the load on the engine is typically larger than a basher. You can tell this from your spark plug. (Which we recently talked about) funny thing is, a 250cc heavily modified mx engine get 40 to 1 nowadays and lives a good long life. And we use 25, and 28 to 1 in our glorified weedwacker engines. We mentioned saws... I have saws that range in age from the 60s to models currently in production. The all eat the 40 to 1 I feed them and none of them have given up the ghost, due to an oil related failure. I guarantee I run my saws harder cutting, in much worse conditions than an rc engine will see in its life.
I'll echo what polar, and a few others have said. Run wtf you want. If it works for you, no use squabbling about it. I'll stick to 40 to 1, and obr and whoever else will tell you thats not enough oil, because they can. And for obvious liability issues as well. Imo anything over 32 to 1 is a waste of expensive oil. Just me, idc how much you put in your engine.
Oh, my basement is my shop.... no Zed dungeons for me, or out buildings atm.... one day...
Click to expand...

Sean,
great post and sharing your experiences. Even though you and I share some different perspectives on 2 stroke engines I have total respect for your comments.
 
Well, I am a newbie on this forum, I am also a Mechanic by Trade. I am sure too get flack for this comment but that's ok.

I have been running my 29cc 5B since 2011 @ 100:1 I have only changed the spark plug once in 9 years. I used to run Evinrude XD100 @ 100:1 (yes I no this is a 50:1 Oil) I ran that for probably 5 or 6 years and now run

Amsoil - SABER® Professional Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil​

@ 100:1.
The day I bought it I ran it 32:1 from that first tank on I kept leaning it out until I was happy with my plug color and the exhaust visual. I found that anything richer than about 80:1 it just dumps black partially burnt oil/fuel out the pipe and makes mess. It is amazing the difference it makes in performance when you play with your oil/fuel ratio.
If I told you all I wasn't nervous when I first started leaning it out id be lying, I was super concerned I would pop a piston or melt the rings out of it but almost 10 years with no rebuilds and its still kicking.
Currently have carb off and suspension apart for rebuilds but once its back together ill post a 100:1 video for the non believers ;)
 
crediblesole13 said:
Well, I am a newbie on this forum, I am also a Mechanic by Trade. I am sure too get flack for this comment but that's ok.

I have been running my 29cc 5B since 2011 @ 100:1 I have only changed the spark plug once in 9 years. I used to run Evinrude XD100 @ 100:1 (yes I no this is a 50:1 Oil) I ran that for probably 5 or 6 years and now run

Amsoil - SABER® Professional Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil​

@ 100:1.
The day I bought it I ran it 32:1 from that first tank on I kept leaning it out until I was happy with my plug color and the exhaust visual. I found that anything richer than about 80:1 it just dumps black partially burnt oil/fuel out the pipe and makes mess. It is amazing the difference it makes in performance when you play with your oil/fuel ratio.
If I told you all I wasn't nervous when I first started leaning it out id be lying, I was super concerned I would pop a piston or melt the rings out of it but almost 10 years with no rebuilds and its still kicking.
Currently have carb off and suspension apart for rebuilds but once its back together ill post a 100:1 video for the non believers ;)
Click to expand...

Ive shaved oil back ,seeing that there was a heavy build up ,from manufactures ratio's!...(y)
 
It's kind of interesting reading on the gradual industry "evolvement" of pre-mix ratios . Back in the 80's it was 30:1 , and that was pretty much the standard for many years. Not sure when the transition to 50:1 came about for power tools , but during the early 2000's I do know that the watercraft industry was running a ratio of 100:1 . Bear in mind watercraft engines run a fairly linear rpm and load, and there's no "dirt" out on the water. The lesser engine operational risk allows for a minimal oil content. Snowmobiles are evolving in the same manner. The Evinrude based ETec engines are becoming all oil direct injected and use only half the oil of say 10 years ago. Some industries claim that the current 2 stroke technology actually burns cleaner emissions vs a comparable 4 stroke of the same application. My 36cc Rovan seems to run perfect with VP 40:1 premixed fuel. Next season I plan to try Husqvarna 50:1 fuel .
 
Polar_Bus said:
It's kind of interesting reading on the gradual industry "evolvement" of pre-mix ratios . Back in the 80's it was 30:1 , and that was pretty much the standard for many years. Not sure when the transition to 50:1 came about for power tools , but during the early 2000's I do know that the watercraft industry was running a ratio of 100:1 . Bear in mind watercraft engines run a fairly linear rpm and load, and there's no "dirt" out on the water. The lesser engine operational risk allows for a minimal oil content. Snowmobiles are evolving in the same manner. The Evinrude based ETec engines are becoming all oil direct injected and use only half the oil of say 10 years ago. Some industries claim that the current 2 stroke technology actually burns cleaner emissions vs a comparable 4 stroke of the same application. My 36cc Rovan seems to run perfect with VP 40:1 premixed fuel. Next season I plan to try Husqvarna 50:1 fuel .
Click to expand...
I cant remember the engine off the top of my head, but in the older 70s engine the 100to1 ratio was kicked to the curb after a few years. I believe they went to 40 or 50 to 1. Power equipment was dependent on the mfg. But mostly by the mid 90s everything was transitioning to 50 to 1 ratio.
The direct injected engines actually run a much more proportional ratio then a pre mix engine. It's amazing how little oil these engines need till they get to higher rpm. Sleds have been doing this for years, as well as 4 wheelers. The old polaris utility quads had a little oil tank built in under the head lights. Hardly ever had to fill the oil take, even when using them hard. Amazing how times changed from the 30 to 1 days with 30 weight engine oil.
Always nice reading your thoughts. Cheers
 
Seandonato73 said:
I cant remember the engine off the top of my head, but in the older 70s engine the 100to1 ratio was kicked to the curb after a few years. I believe they went to 40 or 50 to 1. Power equipment was dependent on the mfg. But mostly by the mid 90s everything was transitioning to 50 to 1 ratio.
The direct injected engines actually run a much more proportional ratio then a pre mix engine. It's amazing how little oil these engines need till they get to higher rpm. Sleds have been doing this for years, as well as 4 wheelers. The old polaris utility quads had a little oil tank built in under the head lights. Hardly ever had to fill the oil take, even when using them hard. Amazing how times changed from the 30 to 1 days with 30 weight engine oil.
Always nice reading your thoughts. Cheers
Click to expand...

I've been out of the 2s injection technology loop for about 10 years now , do the "new" engines still utilize a oil mist injection nozzle that's inserted into the intake port ?
 
Polar_Bus said:
I've been out of the 2s injection technology loop for about 10 years now , do the "new" engines still utilize a oil mist injection nozzle that's inserted into the intake port ?
Click to expand...
Last sled I rode would be about 5 years old now, and had the oil injector in the Intake. Artic cat 600 (I think). haven't been out to MT since that time, so I haven't had a reason to check into the new tech out. Last I heard the 4 strokes had taken over pretty big in that market. Cat still makes 2 strokes, as well as some others, but I think they try to pass them as more of a "base model". Would be Interesting to see where they have come since I last rode. On the quad aspect I not sure If anyone even offers 2 stroke anymore.
 
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